Possibly the most innovative 1911 in years.

[hemiram]

Tan is a color I try to avoid. I don't want a tan/brown car, and I don't want a tan gun!

 

[Venom1956]

It's pretty ugly for a colt... Granted nowadays ugly sells... I suppose if you drop you pistol and wanna have a hard time finding it quickly in sand that's the GO TO color. things gonna be in a holster its not like a AR or something.

 

[1911Tuner]

Marine Corps Colt

I had my hands on one of the new Colts last weekend. It was pretty impressive in fit and finish, though I don't care for a light rail on a fighting pistol.

It was a Series 80 gun, as per Marine Corps specifications, which I also don't care for in a rough duty pistol, but they didn't ask me.

I didn't have the opportunity to wring it out, but the guy assures me that it's more than accurate enough for the task and has proven to be dead reliable with all ammunition tested, including cast SWC. He's been more or less torture-testing the gun as per his agreement with Colt...only performing basic field-strip cleaning and oiling...and using it under adverse conditions such as rain and mud and firing it until it's literally too hot to handle.

So far, so good. Testing continues.

 

[thedudeabides]

I've heard some say that it's just a rail gun the custom shop gave the one-over to make sure tolerances are tight, then threw in the dual recoil spring.

Others say it's a 1911 that has been reinforced and rebuilt from the ground up, and the genius is that you can't see the small differences, but they are there.

I've also heard Wilson Combat territory theoretical accuracy on these things.

I'd like one in black with no fancy roll marks, "Colt's CQB" or something equally understated would be cool. Would be nice to ditch that stupid rail, too.

Colt should start a new model series with this instead of selling a few civvie versions for 2500 bucks a pop. I've never been one to want "a gun like the soldiers have," preferring my 1911s to be either stainless or black parkerized.

They could really have a unique product line here.

 

[kcub]

If you ask me to think of an innovative firearms manufacturer, Colt would not be in my first few choices.

Exactly this. Glock, Sig, S&W, and Beretta have only been stealing their lunch money since the 80's.

 

[thedudeabides]

Those of us who’ve been around the 1911 platform know it is a finicky gun that requires a dedicated end user and strict maintenance schedule if it is to be relied upon. Many 1911 style guns on the market won’t even work well out of the box.

Also, I was really enjoying the entire little write up until I (like the others) came upon this little gem of total garbage. When a 1911 by any manufacturer doesn't work out of the box, it confirms that the myth that 1911s are outdated, finicky, ammo specific, high maintenance jewelry guns that should only be used at the range.

I've heard the same argument all over the interwebs that a 1911 isn't the gun you want if you need something to be reliable under all conditions (this is usually followed by "buy a Glock" but recently the tupperware advice has also included the M&P and XD). Then the person often says that they put 250-500 "trouble free" rounds through their Glock--a round count that will make most 1911 owners laugh.

It seems that 1911 failure is more or less expected by the uninitiated, rather than the fault of a bad day at the gunsmithy, user error, or just a bad example of a 1911--a design archetype that loosely refers to just about anything from a "proper" 45 ACP 5" to 380 ACP pocket guns. When your "perfect" plastic Glock ejects brass in your face, your XDs chokes on mags, your Sig's trigger reset spring breaks in half, your Ruger LC9 seems to be made by Fisher Price, and your Taurus 24/7 shoots your dog and simultaneously catches fire (I keed) that's worth a 10 page internet rant, but no one ever indicts those designs as faulty.

I'm not sure that Yam is trying to make a point as to how awesome Colt's new Marine 1911 is by putting down all other 1911s, or is ignorant to the fact that for the same price just about any 1911 from [insert manufacturer here] would perform similarly.

I've seen all manner of guns fail under all manners of conditions. I think that there are gross misunderstandings over how reliable some brands are (Glock) to how unreliable some PLATFORMS are (1911).

And seeing how we all like anecdotes, which are about as useful as a football bat, during the last tactical/reactive pistol course I took, the only two guns that had managed to make it through an entire day of 1000 rounds of hell, rain, and mud (thank you sunny Florida) were my 1991 Colt stainless Commander and a FNH Hi Power.

 

[polyphemus]

Innovative?I'd be looking for improvements instead.
No doubt the Marine Corps got the firearm they wanted but if saw that thing
at the gun shop I wouldn't even ask to have a close look.It's ugly and it knows it.

 

[1911Tuner]

eh?

Those of us who’ve been around the 1911 platform know it is a finicky gun that requires a dedicated end user and strict maintenance schedule if it is to be relied upon.

I've been "around" it for over 50 years, 48 of which were spent wrenchin' on'em...and I haven't found this to be true. The main problem in recent times seems to be junk magazines that come with so many of'em. The rest of it comes from various manufacturers/assemblers who seem to feel that blueprint specs are suggestions.

Those of us who have been heavily involved in dealing with and using 1911's since 1966 know that is a crock of hooey.

Yep.

The 1911 pistol was designed to function during a time when lives depended on it.

If it's correctly built to spec and fed halfway decent ammunition from a proper magazine, it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.

 

[kraigwy]

Pick up a USGI 1911a1, an original one without modifications.

Shake it, it should rattle. That's "reliability".

Now (make sure the gun is empty) dry fire it, as the hammer falls, hold back the trigger, don't let it reset. Shake it while its in this condition. It wont rattle. That's "combat" accuracy.

That's the way the 1911 was designed. To be reliable and to hit a man size target at 50 yards.

The only thing I find objectionable about the original 1911 is the sights are hard to see. (the same with the little J-frame I carry daily). You'd be surprise how you can over come this defect with a bit of practice.

You start to modify the gun you interject malfunctions.

I do know, from experience that if you take an unmodified 1911, crawl around on your hands and knees, with the pistol in one hand, and a flash light in the other through rice paddy silt, you can give it a quick shake to get the big chunks off and fire it and it will work.

Back when I was in AIT (in '66) this other guy and I screwed up and got the pleasure of clean all the 45s in the training section (several hundred) while the rest of the company got the weekend off.

We took the guns apart and had them set up in piles by part. Cleaned and re-assembled the guns in an assembly line process, doubt we got any of the parts in the original frame. We just picked up a frame and walked down the line grabbing parts until we got them together.

Then we function tested them to make sure they fired. Each and every one went through a magazine without one malfunction.

The parts are not suppose to be hand fitted.

Match guns are different, but again they are reliable for the ammo they were built for, use Hard Ball in a Hard Ball gun it will work. Use Wad Cutters in a Wad Cutter gun and it will work.

But as a service pistol, leave them alone.

As to the Marine's new pistol, I can't say, never fired one.

 

[tomrkba]

They need to trim down the back of the thumb safety. It digs into my hand. I thought this was widely known since the major manufacturers do it. Colt, for whatever reason, went to this cruddy shape when they released the Colt Rail Gun. I know it is an easy fix, but wouldn't it be easier if Colt did it correctly at the factory?

RE: high maintenance

We have to know the maintenance schedule. Glocks have them too. The difference is a bit of "know-how" on the part of the 1911 owner.

RE: Finicky

All I will say is that my two Colts worked reliably with FMJ and JHP. The Kimbers I owned could not shoot 40 rounds without jamming. Every Springfield 1911 I have owned required at least one trip to the factory for buffing, refitting, and/or polishing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Shake. Rattle, and Roll.

Shake it, it should rattle. That's "reliability".

Another myth that sprang from people handling worn out GI pistols and assuming that's the way they were built.

They weren't.

 

[tipoc]

Funny, seeing as MARSOC has been around for about 6 years. I carried a MEUSOC .45 for a while when my job called for it over at 3rd Recon Bn, and it was an awesome pistol. All the MEUSOC pistols we had in Okinawa had Springfield frames, assorted match grade barrels, and an interesting collection of sights. They weren't finicky, but years in the horrendous south Pacific humidity had taken a toll on them, and they would break occasionally.

Sorry I gave the wrong impression. MARSOC was activated in 2006 as you can see here...

http://www.marsoc.marines.mil/About.aspx

The Corp though has been using and rebuilding 1911s for a good many years from part originally issued by Colt and collections of pieces and parts from a number of sources including parts from Springfield and guns ordered from Springfield some time back. There have been smaller number of guns obtained from other sources as well...

By the early 1990s, most M1911A1s had been replaced by the M9, though a limited number remain in use by special units. The U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) in particular were noted for continuing the use of M1911 pistols for selected personnel in MEU(SOC) and reconnaissance units (though the USMC also purchased over 50,000 M9 pistols). For its part, the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) issued a requirement for a .45 ACP pistol in the Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) trials. This resulted in the Heckler & Koch OHWS becoming the MK23 Mod 0 Offensive Handgun Weapon System (itself being heavily based on the 1911's basic field strip), beating the Colt OHWS, a much modified M1911. Dissatisfaction with the stopping power of the 9 mm Parabellum cartridge used in the Beretta M9 has actually promoted re-adoption of pistols based on the .45 ACP cartridge such as the M1911 design, along with other pistols, among USSOCOM units in recent years, though the M9 remains predominant both within SOCOM and in the U.S. military in general.[18]

Marine Expeditionary Units formerly issued M1911s to Force Recon units.[23] Hand-selected Colt M1911A1 frames were gutted, deburred, and prepared for additional use by the USMC Precision Weapon Section (PWS) at Marine Corps Base Quantico.[23] They were then assembled with after-market grip safeties, ambidextrous thumb safeties, triggers, improved high-visibility sights, accurized barrels, grips, and improved Wilson magazines.[24] These hand-made pistols were tuned to specifications and preferences of end users.[25]

In the late 1980s, the Marines laid out a series of specifications and improvements to make Browning's design ready for 21st century combat, many of which have been included in MEU (SOC) pistol designs, but design and supply time was limited.[25] Discovering that the Los Angeles Police Department was pleased with their special Kimber M1911 pistols, a single source request was issued to Kimber for just such a pistol despite the imminent release of their TLE/RLII models.[26] Kimber shortly began producing a limited number of what would be later termed the Interim Close Quarters Battle pistol (ICQB). Maintaining the simple recoil assembly, 5-inch barrel (though using a stainless steel match grade barrel), and internal extractor, the ICQB is not much different from Browning's original design.[26]

In late July 2012, the U.S. Marines placed a $22.5 million order for 12,000 M1911 pistols for MEU(SOC) forces.[4] The new 1911 was designated M45A1 or "Close Quarters Battle Pistol" CQBP. The M45A1 features a dual recoil spring assembly, Picatinny rails and is cerakoted tan in color.

I lifted the above from Wikipedia, a questionable source, but the basics are correct.

The order being filled today by Colt though, is the largest for 1911 pattern guns for some time.

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

Those of us who’ve been around the 1911 platform know it is a finicky gun that requires a dedicated end user and strict maintenance schedule if it is to be relied upon. Many 1911 style guns on the market won’t even work well out of the box. So how does the Marines’ new 45-caliber pistol fare?

The quote here is from Tim Lau. It's his opinion. I don't agree with it. Folks can go to the website and ask Lau why he has that opinion though.

I do think it is true that there are a good many 1911 pattern guns on the market that do have trouble functioning well. I also think that there are more shooters these days than in decades past who are somewhat baffled by mechanical things more complex than a can opener. These folks can have trouble with a 1911 and blame the gun rather than their lack of skill and experience.

Many folk also are drawn to compact 1911 pattern guns for CCW sometimes as their first guns. They are dismayed when they cannot get them to be reliable, or as reliable as a compact Ruger, Springfield or Kahr.

But that is Lau's opinion. You can get distracted by that or you can look at the gun.

Why did MARSOC want the features it got?

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

For consideration a bit more on the Corp and the 1911...

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm

From 2002:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meu_1911.htm

tipoc

 

[TunnelRat]

We're all over the place with this thread.

Let's be realistic. There are manufacturers out there right now that are making 1911s that oftentimes do require some fiddling out of the box. Was this exaggerated in the article? Yes, that's called marketing. But from my experience, they often do require a bit more tinkering than some other more modern designs. Do I care? No. Why? Because in many cases they're being asked to feed ammo they weren't designed for and many manufacturers are adding their own "input" to the original design and the results are mixed. But of the guns I have bought I have yet to have a 1911 that didn't require a trip back to the mothership or to a smith.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I thought the mantra of 1911 folks (amongst others) was that more or different parts meant more problems. The dual recoil spring would therefore violate that oft repeated claim.

The new colt looks nice enough, but like the others, I fail to see anything particularly innovative.

 

[polyphemus]

"Another myth that sprang from people handling worn out GI pistols and assuming that's the way they were built"
I have my '43 Rand in my hand(right now)it is pristine and NOT a shooter it is my
pride and joy and it does rattle.It did see action but the flight Lt who carried it
in the Pacific shot torpedoes at the japs so may be practice that's it,not nearly
enough to wear the ways,having said that I would not hesitate to use it under
any circumstances.Genuine 100% from front sight to lanyard loop.

 

[polyphemus]

"Why did MARSOC want the features it got?"
Just guessing here:because it was the same committee that spec'd the MV-22.

 

[10mm4ever]

On the plus side, it just serves as further proof that the 1911 is STILL considered by many as the greatest fighting pistol ever.

 

[Bongo Boy]

Seems like the government specified itself right out of an opportunity to innovate at all, to me. Kind of an embarrassment, IMO.

It would have been nice to see a challenge RFP published that would potentially make a real difference, but I know the buying organization may not have been authorized a budget for innovation. Still something like:

1) sealed, field replaceable recoil mechanism (such as pneumatic) with 1 million cycle MTBF, field adjustable between n and m lbs/in
2) weapon accommodates internal storage of one replacement recoil mechanism
3) 12 round minimum capacity
4) field strip can be done with one hand, in two steps, no tools required (we've built semi-auto pistols that meet this requirement for 6 decades) and
5) when field-stripped, no loose or 'freestanding' parts other than slide, barrel, frame and recoil mechanism

I don't know--just something to significantly improve usability, reduce manufacture and maintenance cost, and improve useful service life not by 10%, but by, say 150%.

And while they're at it, try not to make it the most butt-ugly handgun outside of the Kimber factory--my goodness. Can you imagine having to listen to the same old bad gay and pimp jokes every time you wear that thing?