Police officers = civilians or part of the armed forces?

[BerettaCougar]

Watching COPS tonight I realized that each and every police officer that said anything on the show referred to subjects on the show as civilians and once as a citizen.

I was under the impression that police officers were civilians (since they are not lawful combatants). I don't want to start a WE H8 TEH SYSTEM thread, I just want to hash out my obvious misunderstanding. The definition of civilian is different depending on the source.

Anyone?

 

[Redworm]

merriam webster defines a civilian as

2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force

But it's pretty clear the distinction is a bit more complex than that. I remember this being brought up before and I relied on the dictionary definition but Antipitas had a great way of explaining how the meaning of the word has been skewed over the years. I just don't remember what that was.

I think it was Antipitas...

 

[FireMax]

If you had asked me 10 years ago, I would say cops are civilians. The federal government has blurred the distiniction in the past 8 years or so. Take into account that the police forces sometimes use tanks and dress like soldiers and it seems that they are more like an arm of the military.

I vote military.

 

[SecDef]

I vote militia

 

[zxcvbob]

They are civilians (just like most of us), because they are bound by ordinary laws rather than the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I believe that's spelled out in federal law somewhere.

 

[tube_ee]

Civilians...

Period.

Your job doesn't make you special, even if it's dangerous. And based on actuarial data, there are many jobs more dangerous than being a cop.

Police officers deserve no greater rights or privileges than any other citizen.

And I like cops, unless by their actions they show themselves unworthy of being liked.

--Shannon

 

[JuanCarlos]

Watching COPS tonight I realized that each and every police officer that said anything on the show referred to subjects on the show as civilians and once as a citizen.

I was under the impression that police officers were civilians (since they are not lawful combatants). I don't want to start a WE H8 TEH SYSTEM thread, I just want to hash out my obvious misunderstanding. The definition of civilian is different depending on the source.

Anyone?

Cops are, in the grand scheme, civilians. However, it's become a common usage among police officers to refer to the populace at large as civilians, and honestly I don't know that it's entirely unreasonable or uncalled for. There is a pretty big divide between those who make it their career to enforce the law often putting themselves in harm's way, and those that don't.

However, I'd say the increasing militarization of police and the impression I get that the officer/civilian divide is becoming wider in their minds are troubling.


Also, it should be noted that the use of the term "civilian" is fairly common (or at least not entirely rare) in other contexts as well, usually used for those within a profession or group to refer to those outside it.

 

[elza]

I guess it depends upon how it is intended. Since I’m not a cop I can’t comment about their point of view.

However, employees of the Federal government (of which I am one) refer to people and jobs outside the .gov as ‘civilian’. It doesn’t imply anything military just a distinction between government and non-government service. Although using it in this manner is incorrect it is common place.

 

[divemedic]

My coworkers constantly refer to the public as 'civilians' and I think that is incorrect.

There are two forms of authority: military and civil. Which one should they be? Civil. What do many of them wanna be? military. It is more tacticool, you get all of the toys, and the people you get to 'fight' don't shoot back nearly as much.

 

[Well Regulated]

The courts have held that police forces to be paramilitary forces. As such they are on active duty when they go to work.

 

[rampage841512]

Police officers are agents of the government, not civilians or military.

 

[Alleykat]

Police officers also misuse the term, "myself" more than any other group of people I ever observed. Example: "My partner and myself went...blah, blah, blah." Or: "The bad guy took a shot at my partner and myself."

 

[Eghad]

They are civilains and also law enforcment officers with certain powers and duties under the local and state laws. Because of these powers and duties they have a higher degree of responsibility in some matters than a regular citizen would.

military members are also citizens....once again with different duties and rules than a regular citizen.

 

[armoredman]

Not all military or law enforcement are citizens. Many joined our military from foreign nations, and are earning thier citizenship while serving. I personally know three foreign nationals in my Dept, working on thier citizenship, (one Mexico, two China), and one who just got his, (India), and a few that recieved thiers while working for the Dept, (Vietnam, Germany, Mexico, South Africa, and Japan), for example. So, make sure you distinguish citizen from civilian.
Civilians can be thought of as non uniformed members of society. Non civilians, law enforcement, fire fighters, military), may be thought of as uniformed defenders of civilians, who place thier lives on the line for somebody else. Yes, there are jobs more dangerous, but not for the same reason.
On the flip side, I also dislike the growing gap between LE and the regular Joe and Christy, and the growing militarization of our police forces. Even our own TSU is equipped with paramilitary gear.

 

[Al Norris]

From the 1828 Webster's:
CIVILIAN, n. [from civil.]

1. One who is skilled in the Roman law; a professor or doctor of civil law.
2. In a more extended sense, one who is versed in law and government.
3. A student of the civil law at the university.​

From the 1913 Webster':
Ci*vil"ian (?), n. [From Civil]

1. One skilled in the civil law.

Ancient civilians and writers upon government. Swift.​

2. A student of the civil law at a university or college. R. Graves.
3. One whose pursuits are those of civil life, not military or clerical.​

From the current Webster's:
Main Entry: ci·vil·ian
Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century

1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider​

— civilian adjective

The etymology of the word:
civilian

1388, from O.Fr. civilien "of the civil law," created from L. civilis (see civil). Original meaning in Eng. was "judge or authority on civil law," sense of "non-military person" is first attested 1829.​

By far the definition, as generally used is:

noun: a nonmilitary citizen
adjective: associated with or performed by civilians as contrasted with the military​

So, as we can see, definitions do change over time. The results of the current definition are probably a combination of both the police usage and the citizens usage - It's a chicken and egg question.

Having shown the mess we are in, as regards word usage, I have to say the militarization of the police does in no way help the "Us" vs. "Them" mentality that is prevalent in society today. Nor does legislative enactments that place the police as some kind of "super citizen," help in this regard. sigh.

As Pogo would say: They is us and us is them.

 

[k8do]

Militia = Civilian

Actually, federal law specifically defines this...
To paraphrase as best I can from faulty memory:
The militia includes all white men age 21 or more, who are not currently members of the armed forces, the state guards, or state police, or local police...
Firemen are not mentioned - as best I recomember...
The fact that the 1800's language is not PC today is neither here nor there... And as far as I know there has been no subsequent federal law nor any SCOTUS ruling that has abolished this law... The rulings banning discrimination by race or gender do not abolish this law, but simply adds to the description of those included, i.e. not just white men...

Which is why the true scholars of the 2nd amendment just yawn and move on because the issue was long ago settled... The only question before the court today, is will the justices obey federal law or continue their experiment in social engineering..

denny

 

[divemedic]

The courts have held that police forces to be paramilitary forces. As such they are on active duty when they go to work.

Which court case was this? Can you cite it? Or is this another "I heard it on the internet, so it must be true." story?

 

[wogpotter]

Police Officers are civillians.
Military Police Officers are military.

Simple really when you strip away all the hype isn't it?

 

[Redworm]

Yes but not so simple when you consider that language evolves.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

My coworkers constantly refer to the public as 'civilians' and I think that is incorrect.

Well, it is correct, mostly. The general public is composed predominately of civilians.

There is nothing wrong with referring to the general public as civilians since that is what they are.