Point shooting--what is considered acceptable accuracy?

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orionengnr

New member
I am a newcomer to point shooting. My understanding is (and please correct me if I'm wrong; this is how I have been practicing of late)...
Target at 15 feet.
Pistol at low ready, finger off trigger.
Eyes on the ground about 5 feet in front of me.

One, two, three...raise eyes and pistol simultaneously. Both eyes open. When pistol is approximately on target, press trigger. No real sight picture.

I try to shoot once a week (although in the last 6 months ammo price/availability has interfered with that goal). That said, my point-shooting ability (six rounds, 15 feet, one shot at a time) has gone from 9 inches to about 3 inches.

Is this acceptable? I have no real metric.
 
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R.Ph. 380

New member
I'd say awesome for point shooting. Now jog in place for 6 to 10 minutes until heart rate around 130 to 140, vision is starting to narrow, breathing heavy and then try again. Adrenalin does strange things to perception and body dynamics also affect. I think you've got a good hand eye coordination for yourself going.

Bill
 
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Mello2u

New member
You mentioned the distance factor.
What about the time factor?
Were you shooting aimed pairs?

At 15' from the ready position, you should be able to shoot two aimed shots in 0.5 seconds from a random start signal, and keep them inside of a 8" center of mass. A shot time is a valuable training tool.

As the distance increases the time can increase, a little. Accuracy is still the 8" center of mass circle.
 
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AK103K

New member
I would think that anything kept more or less COM as you draw, move, and shoot and continue to shoot would suffice.

I think group sizes on static targets shot from fixed positions of known distances, can be a little unrealistic and tend to give you a false sense of security, but thats me. Sounds like you have the basic things down pretty well now, you just need to spice things up a little. Dont be to critical on yourself about the size of the groups if your hits are good. I'd also shift focus from single shots to rapid, multiple shots or "bursts". A single round may "kill" on paper, living things tend to have different thoughts on the matter and may not be impressed.
 
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win-lose

New member
I like to set up 3 8" targets in a vertical row and use alternating shot patterns, deciding which pattern the moment before raising the gun to engage. If I could, I'd line up 3 such target groups side by side, but that won't work at the indoor range I shoot at.

I point shoot mostly with one hand and try to alternate my body angle while practicing.
 
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ZeSpectre

New member
Since point shooting is generally considered something one would do in a self-defense scenario, I would say that anything that stays "minute-of-bad-guy" is probably acceptable.

I've found that during move-and-shoot "close quarter drills" I can generally keep things roughly teacup-saucer sized for out to about 12-15 ft and then it starts opening up dramatically.
 
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CWPinSC

Moderator
I wouldn't worry about being tack driver accurate in a gunfight. Shoot quickly, hit what you aim at and get every round in the upper torso and you'll come out good.
 
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koolminx

New member
Dang I wish I could wield a pistol like that! My pistol shot pattern while using a bench at 10 feet is about 15 inches!

Maybe I'm just not cut out for pistol shooting... Bow yes, rifle, yes, pistol... couldn't even hit myself with it...
 
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Buzzcook

New member
If you're at the range just target shoot. That does more to improve your point shooting than practicing point shooting.
What you want to do is simply plinking. Set up odd targets at odd distances and take snap shots.
I think formalizing point shooting just ingrains bad habits.
 
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38super

Moderator
R.ph 380

I used go shoot every week at paper target, until I did what Bill suggests, and think back to all those rounds I wasted shooting static, head shot after head shot. Get your heart pumping, totally different game.

Bill offers good advice. Please train like he says at least once, you will see just how good you are. It was an eye opener for me the first time I did that. :eek:
 
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CraigC

Moderator
If you're at the range just target shoot. That does more to improve your point shooting than practicing point shooting.
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I have to strongly disagree with that statement. IMHO, point shooting is a vastly underrated skill, especially for those interested in self defense. Trying to find the sights to shoot a threat only feet away because it's ingrained into your brain takes time and could get you killed. For most defensive shooting, I would wager, sights are an unnecessary hindrance. With practice, anyone can become proficient in shooting without the sights at applicable self defense ranges. The only way to get proficient at point shooting is, well, by point shooting.

Three inches at fifteen feet is good shooting. I would suggest you work your way to 15yds and as your skill progresses, work your way into hip-shooting. It's unfortunate that most indoor ranges will not allow shooters to practice some of the most important self defense skills.
 
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Buzzcook

New member
CraigC: I agree that point shooting is a skill worth learning. My disagreement comes with the venue. Situations where we would use point shooting by it's nature is random and unpredictable.
Further I believe that aimed shooting is the more important skill. It's the walk before run school of thought.

That's why I suggest plinking as the venue for learning point shooting. It is random and unpredictable. It is a venue that lends itself to improvisation.
Knocking down tin cans is better training for point shooting than formalizing the same thing at the range.
 
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Deaf Smith

New member
It's the walk before run school of thought.
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Exactly. Point shooting is a nice-to-have skill unless time and cost are so critical you have no choice but to teach that as the primary skill.

Sigheted fire and a form of retention shooting is the core.

Fairbairn was forced to use point shooting as they were allowed only 50 rounds a year practice per officer, not to mention the sights on the Colt 1911s and Colt 08s were of the old thumbnail variety and usless in any condition but bright sunlight (and even then not really useful.) Plus his officers were very unfamilar with guns. Add to this the British target shooting methods used for practice and well, he really did the best he could under those circumstances.

But we are not in that situation (unless Obama/Reid/Pelosi get their way.)

And much has been learned since the days of Shanghai.
 
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orionengnr

New member
Thank you for all the responses.

Let me try to add/clarify.

First off, all my pistol shooting is done at an indoor range that "strongly discourages" :) rapid fire. So, no controlled pairs, no double taps. Each shot starts from the low ready, eyes off the target. (Not sure how they'd be with running in place in my lane, either...although at my age it sure won't take 6-10 minutes to get my heart rate up :))

Second, and for the record, a 3" group is not my norm (more like 8 or 9"). Each range session, I use the last 15 rounds or so (two or three magazines or cylinders) for point shooting. This was my Kimber making me look good Wednesday night, and I was amazed by it. If I can do it again next week, and the week after...then I'll be very happy.

Finally, I agree with the perishability of all shooting skills, which is why I try to shoot once a week. The combination of shooting a lot of .22LR and reloading have helped facilitate frequent practice.
 
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MosinM38

New member
REALLY good for just point shooting.

I consider myself good enough by doing this:

Setting up a few 8"X12" targets at ranges from 3 to 7 yards and shooting various ways. POint shooting from lower chest, chest level, rapid fire.etc.etc.

In generally I can keep stuff inside of an 8" circle regardless of speed fired so...I consider it good enough. If I NEED to point shoot that will do accuracy wise. If that won't, I'll have to aim anyway.
 
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orionengnr

New member
Your link goes to:

Non-Firearms Training Series from Personal Defense Video

Not sure what that has to do with anything...
 
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win-lose

New member
IMHO, point shooting is a vastly underrated skill, especially for those interested in self defense.
Click to expand...

+1000

I agree that point shooting is a skill worth learning. My disagreement comes with the venue. Situations where we would use point shooting by it's nature is random and unpredictable.
Click to expand...

The reason I carry a gun is to survive these "situations"! I consider point shooting to be a core shooting skill. Sighted fire is sport, for most....
 
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