Permit Holder Loses Pistol in Road Rage Incident
- Thread starter XavierBreath
- Start date
LAK,
The way I read the story, Shea was never actually approached by the other guy. It makes it seem like the guy pulled next to him as they were going down the highway. Shea takes out his pistol and makes a show of cocking it? and the incident ends. Shea was in contact with this guy for what seems like an extended period of time. He had ample opportunity to get his description. The guy retreats and Shea follows him. The absolute only way that you can be justified in pulling a pistol out in an altercation is if you are in a situation where you can articulate a justifiable reason for doing so. In this case it would be because Shea apparently feared that he was going to be attacked. The guy brandishes a long, black object. I will give Shea the benefit of the doubt to that point. When he follows he is flat out wrong. If God forbid this would have ended up in a shooting after that point it would be him who would be on trial. He CHASED the other guy and ends up shooting him? His actions are unjustifiable, reckless and plain stupid. The fact that he did not retreat most certainly is grounds to dismiss his initial pulling of the pistol. It shows that he really wasn't in fear of his life.
If you are ever involved in a shooting you had better be able to reasonably show that you did everything possible to avoid the situation and it was an absolute last resort to save your life. How could Shea do that if he ended up shooting the guy after the guy retreated? He couldn't.
This was a stupid road rage incident and Shea had a weapon and escalated the incident. He justifiably lost the gun and I hope he doesn't get it back, ever. Nobody should want people like this running around with a weapon.(I base this completely on the news story)
The way I read the story, Shea was never actually approached by the other guy. It makes it seem like the guy pulled next to him as they were going down the highway. Shea takes out his pistol and makes a show of cocking it? and the incident ends. Shea was in contact with this guy for what seems like an extended period of time. He had ample opportunity to get his description. The guy retreats and Shea follows him. The absolute only way that you can be justified in pulling a pistol out in an altercation is if you are in a situation where you can articulate a justifiable reason for doing so. In this case it would be because Shea apparently feared that he was going to be attacked. The guy brandishes a long, black object. I will give Shea the benefit of the doubt to that point. When he follows he is flat out wrong. If God forbid this would have ended up in a shooting after that point it would be him who would be on trial. He CHASED the other guy and ends up shooting him? His actions are unjustifiable, reckless and plain stupid. The fact that he did not retreat most certainly is grounds to dismiss his initial pulling of the pistol. It shows that he really wasn't in fear of his life.
If you are ever involved in a shooting you had better be able to reasonably show that you did everything possible to avoid the situation and it was an absolute last resort to save your life. How could Shea do that if he ended up shooting the guy after the guy retreated? He couldn't.
This was a stupid road rage incident and Shea had a weapon and escalated the incident. He justifiably lost the gun and I hope he doesn't get it back, ever. Nobody should want people like this running around with a weapon.(I base this completely on the news story)
TheeBadOne
Moderator
steve154 +1
XavierBreath
New member
Bingo. I've been waiting for someone to catch that tidbit. When Shea decided to continue the conflict, after Morris terminated it, he crossed the line. IMHO that's when he went from a good guy to a bad guy. You must control your temper if you carry a gun.
Saying you were trying to get a license number and better description does not outweigh the threat you pose to the other party if you produce a gun, and they leave, and you give chase.
Geez, yes! I was glad to see that somebody finally mentioned that this Shea guy was the correct one to be arrested here. The guy FOLLOWED the other car AFTER the situation had apparently been diffused. Even if Shea happened to be heading that way, he should have at least given the other guy a few minutes headstart to avoid having to interact with him again at another stoplight or something. He was begging for another encounter which puts him solidly in the WRONG!
Can't believe that up until about 5 or 6 posts ago, people were saying that Shea was wronged! Sheesh.
Can't believe that up until about 5 or 6 posts ago, people were saying that Shea was wronged! Sheesh.
westphoenix
New member
Steve154 has it right.
When I read the story that was the second thing Shea did wrong that jumped out at me.
The first thing was flashing the weapon while cocking it.
He should not have flashed the weapon until the man was approaching or actually making an action towards him.
Shea following Morris after Morris fled was very stupid; the charge is appropriate.
Morris should have been charged with road rage.
There is no reason to follow someone to tell them how ****ty of a driver they are.
That is just provoking an incident that could turn violent, and with a kid in the car....
My 15 minute drive home would turn into 2-hours if I followed everyone and told them how bad of a driver they are.
They both f'd up.
When I read the story that was the second thing Shea did wrong that jumped out at me.
The first thing was flashing the weapon while cocking it.
He should not have flashed the weapon until the man was approaching or actually making an action towards him.
Shea following Morris after Morris fled was very stupid; the charge is appropriate.
Morris should have been charged with road rage.
There is no reason to follow someone to tell them how ****ty of a driver they are.
That is just provoking an incident that could turn violent, and with a kid in the car....
My 15 minute drive home would turn into 2-hours if I followed everyone and told them how bad of a driver they are.
They both f'd up.
Me too. And you see this is the crux of the matter; either he was justified in this act or not. What follows really doesn't matter - unless you are going to say you do not believe he was truthful about the first part which led to drawing a weapon.
That depends. Remember, at least as far as I am concerned for the purpose of a somewhat superficial discussion pending more info, the article is to be taken at face value. We do not indeed have all the facts.
I simply maintain that assuming the facts are so, Shea was quite justified in readying his piece.
Why he followed after that is largely speculative. But, I can say - for myself - that there may well be circumstances I might tail someone who had threatened me or made a reckless attempt to disrupt my progress. And for a number of reasons. Whether anyone thinks it is wise or unwise is another matter. What matters is survival of number one & family, and I would do whatever I decided was best in that regard.
Again, this depends. I do not have to "avoid" anyone on my own property - or in making sure someone isn't headed that direction. Or under many other circumstances.
Perhaps Shea and Morris have "met before". This we do not know.
Well now you contradict what you state in the first quote above. Do you believe Shea perceived a threatening situation or not?
TheeBadOne
Moderator
A willingness to defend someone simply because your own ideology demands it is lunacy. It’s folks like this guy that give anti's ammunition to use against law abiding gun owners. And defending him gives them further ammunition.
Argue all you want about the 1st part, but after displaying and cocking the firearm the "deadly" threat (if there really was one (deadly), acknowledged long flashlight, while deadly on foot, is not as much so side by side in seperate cars) was over.
Now the unarmed driver speeding/fleeing in the car ahead of Shea is being pursued by a person with a loaded/cocked firearm who, instead of letting it go, speeds up and follows you. Do you think they felt threatened?
"FU's" are one thing, this is quite another. (and the "maybe he was trying to get a license plate" doesn't cut it, period.)
Argue all you want about the 1st part, but after displaying and cocking the firearm the "deadly" threat (if there really was one (deadly), acknowledged long flashlight, while deadly on foot, is not as much so side by side in seperate cars) was over.
Now the unarmed driver speeding/fleeing in the car ahead of Shea is being pursued by a person with a loaded/cocked firearm who, instead of letting it go, speeds up and follows you. Do you think they felt threatened?
"FU's" are one thing, this is quite another. (and the "maybe he was trying to get a license plate" doesn't cut it, period.)
I get the same picture in my mind that the rest of you have- that shea and morris are both a couple of idiots that need to be put away. Probably true.
But I wonder- did shea cock the weapon purposely so that morris could see it? Or was it in the glovebox, chamber empty? It would be difficult to get it out, charge it and fire if Shea waited for Morris to exit the vehicle with a club. Shea might have been blocked in traffic and had no escape route. Did Shea take the CZ out of the glovebox and chamber a round to ready it for an anticipated attack by Morris? Or did he threaten Morris with it? Keep in mind in a small car it would be difficult to remove a gun from a glove box and charge it with two hands, without someone seeing it from a vehicle stopped beside you.
What's wrong with getting a tag number from someone who threatened you with a club? As one of the posters has suggested he can't hit you with a club as you're driving at 60 mph. Why not get the tag #, so you can get the idiot who threatened you arrested before he actually hurts somebody? Iwouldn'tfollow himten miles, but the article doesn't specify how far he was followed. 2 blocks? 20 miles? Or reports you to the police for something you did not do. Gets your name plastered all over the newspapers and such.
Big "ifs" I know. But I'd hate to be arrested in such an incident if I were in the right. The reporter wasn't there and is not neccessarily reporting the whole story. I try not to knee-jerk when I see stuff like this in the news.
BTW:
I hope you're not suggesting Shea (if he is what the news says) is a safe person as long as he's disarmed. If someone road rages with a gun, he shouldn't be on the road, with a gun or a 3000# automobile or a fist. IMO, the man is the problem, not the gun. Gun is perfectly safe and should be ...I don't know... given to a responsible gun owner like me who needs a 9mm for cheap practice.
But I wonder- did shea cock the weapon purposely so that morris could see it? Or was it in the glovebox, chamber empty? It would be difficult to get it out, charge it and fire if Shea waited for Morris to exit the vehicle with a club. Shea might have been blocked in traffic and had no escape route. Did Shea take the CZ out of the glovebox and chamber a round to ready it for an anticipated attack by Morris? Or did he threaten Morris with it? Keep in mind in a small car it would be difficult to remove a gun from a glove box and charge it with two hands, without someone seeing it from a vehicle stopped beside you.
What's wrong with getting a tag number from someone who threatened you with a club? As one of the posters has suggested he can't hit you with a club as you're driving at 60 mph. Why not get the tag #, so you can get the idiot who threatened you arrested before he actually hurts somebody? Iwouldn'tfollow himten miles, but the article doesn't specify how far he was followed. 2 blocks? 20 miles? Or reports you to the police for something you did not do. Gets your name plastered all over the newspapers and such.
Big "ifs" I know. But I'd hate to be arrested in such an incident if I were in the right. The reporter wasn't there and is not neccessarily reporting the whole story. I try not to knee-jerk when I see stuff like this in the news.
BTW:
I hope you're not suggesting Shea (if he is what the news says) is a safe person as long as he's disarmed. If someone road rages with a gun, he shouldn't be on the road, with a gun or a 3000# automobile or a fist. IMO, the man is the problem, not the gun. Gun is perfectly safe and should be ...I don't know... given to a responsible gun owner like me who needs a 9mm for cheap practice.
WayneinFL,
I said several times that I was basing my points soley on the news article and playing with the assumption that it is accurate and complete.( I know that is a stretch ) I would bet that the three sides to this story belong to Shea, Morris and the truth...
I am not suggesting that Shea would be a safe person if not armed and fully agree that the weapon is perfectly safe as long as a hot head is not holding it. The person is indeed the problem and not the weapon. I only advocate gun control for those proven incompetent by their criminal, or idiotic actions. I maintain that I wish more honest, responsible citizens were armed on a regular basis.
Steve
I said several times that I was basing my points soley on the news article and playing with the assumption that it is accurate and complete.( I know that is a stretch
) I would bet that the three sides to this story belong to Shea, Morris and the truth...I am not suggesting that Shea would be a safe person if not armed and fully agree that the weapon is perfectly safe as long as a hot head is not holding it. The person is indeed the problem and not the weapon. I only advocate gun control for those proven incompetent by their criminal, or idiotic actions. I maintain that I wish more honest, responsible citizens were armed on a regular basis.
Steve
Just Lookin
New member
same story, different paper....
Hi All,
This is my very first post, even though I've been lurking around for a while. When I noticed that this story took place right here in SE Connecticut, I just had to post I actually live about 10 miles from where this all happened.... and get this.... I went to school with a Brian Shea and he was really a hot-headed A$$ back then.... but I really don't know if this is the same guy.
Here in CT, if your pistol is NOT on your person, it must be stored unloaded, with the ammo/clip in another part of the car (not within easy reach) So if he pulled a loaded gun from his glovebox, he was already breaking the law!!!
But here is a completely different view of what happened that day, just to show you how the "facts" can change with each and every person telling the story, and its gonna be really hard to pass any judgement on the people after the fact.
Hartford Courant News Story
I hope that worked
Jim
Hi All,
This is my very first post, even though I've been lurking around for a while. When I noticed that this story took place right here in SE Connecticut, I just had to post
I actually live about 10 miles from where this all happened.... and get this.... I went to school with a Brian Shea and he was really a hot-headed A$$ back then.... but I really don't know if this is the same guy.Here in CT, if your pistol is NOT on your person, it must be stored unloaded, with the ammo/clip in another part of the car (not within easy reach) So if he pulled a loaded gun from his glovebox, he was already breaking the law!!!
But here is a completely different view of what happened that day, just to show you how the "facts" can change with each and every person telling the story, and its gonna be really hard to pass any judgement on the people after the fact.
Hartford Courant News Story
I hope that worked
Jim
TheeBadOne
Moderator
How many Shea champions would still like to come forth?
XavierBreath
New member
Very Interesting JL! Hope you don't mind, I'm going to post the 2nd version of the story here so it won't get lost over time!
Man Is Charged In Highway Incident
CROMWELL - Local police on Wednesday arrested a Bristol man accused of brandishing a pistol at another motorist traveling with a 2-year-old boy on Route 9.
Police charged Brian D. Shea, 31, of 28 Pardee St., with first-degree reckless endangerment and second-degree threatening. Shea was released on $5,000 bail. He is scheduled to appear on Aug. 2 in Superior Court in Middletown.
Police called the incident road rage.
Police said the incident occurred about 6 p.m. on the southbound side of Route 9. Shea and the other driver had pulled over next to the Exit 19 ramp and argued, police said. Shea then pulled out a 9mm handgun and cocked the hammer in view of the other motorist, before returning to his vehicle, police said.
The other driver followed Shea on Route 9 and alerted police on his cellphone. The cars passed an officer on patrol, who made the arrest. The weapon was recovered, police said.
Police did not release the identity of the other driver.
http://www.courant.com/hc-1nbrf0721.artjul21,0,6562465.story
Man Is Charged In Highway Incident
CROMWELL - Local police on Wednesday arrested a Bristol man accused of brandishing a pistol at another motorist traveling with a 2-year-old boy on Route 9.
Police charged Brian D. Shea, 31, of 28 Pardee St., with first-degree reckless endangerment and second-degree threatening. Shea was released on $5,000 bail. He is scheduled to appear on Aug. 2 in Superior Court in Middletown.
Police called the incident road rage.
Police said the incident occurred about 6 p.m. on the southbound side of Route 9. Shea and the other driver had pulled over next to the Exit 19 ramp and argued, police said. Shea then pulled out a 9mm handgun and cocked the hammer in view of the other motorist, before returning to his vehicle, police said.
The other driver followed Shea on Route 9 and alerted police on his cellphone. The cars passed an officer on patrol, who made the arrest. The weapon was recovered, police said.
Police did not release the identity of the other driver.
http://www.courant.com/hc-1nbrf0721.artjul21,0,6562465.story
If the person who wrote the article is going to refer to the handgun as a weapon, he/she should've also used the same desciption for the flashlight, which may or may not have been used to attack in that situation. What the **** else was the guy holding the flashlight up for? Not like he was saying "I'm LATE for the flashlight expo 2005, please don't hold me up!"
TheeBadOne
Our laws, and nation were founded on principles of ideology that are worth defending. Yes, it does matter.
I couldn't care less about the "antis". It is their complete lack of principle, along with their hostility to our founding ideology that is part of their driving force. That is where they must be opposed - not playing a game of avoidance with the truth so as not to upset them.
Steve154
This was just two people - and no apparent witnesses as to what took place leading up to or during that intial confrontation; one's word against another's.
As much as some people don't like them and regardless of how many of them might be crooked, lawyers for example do this. And for good reason.
Our laws, and nation were founded on principles of ideology that are worth defending. Yes, it does matter.
I couldn't care less about the "antis". It is their complete lack of principle, along with their hostility to our founding ideology that is part of their driving force. That is where they must be opposed - not playing a game of avoidance with the truth so as not to upset them.
Steve154
I am simply passing an opinion based on what is surface and included in the article. Indeed we do not know the whole story perhaps; but either Shea was justified in his intial action - or not.
This was just two people - and no apparent witnesses as to what took place leading up to or during that intial confrontation; one's word against another's.