Passive Non-Compliance

[Shane Tuttle]

Name 'em. And they better not be John Q. Public from Podunk, Iowa. Plus, links to their written documentation on incidents when the perp NEVER displayed actions that caused the defender to be fearful of imminent death.

 

[Lost Sheep]

How about this problem?

Interesting thread.

I don't know how many of the readers of this thread have been following this one

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363031
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363031

but the situation seems similar, but is an ongoing harrassment and intimidation scenario.

Any thoughts?

Lost Sheep

I will now quote an unnamed source: If you find youself in a fair fight, your tactics ---- (are inadequate).

 

[Wildalaska]

I know quite a few expert trainers that would not hesitate to go out there and take whatever measures necessary to take this low life off the steets. I would be very happy to refer them if you so desire. These people are not just "expert trainers" they are warriors.

Horrorshow! Names please...I need to become a warrior...I'm tired of skulking like a yellow coward in my house while the cheloveks and prestoopniks crast and crack as the millicents take their time in rescuing me.....

WildyermysaviorAlaska TM

 

[supergas452M]

Tuttle8, you doubt I can name them? What rock have you been hiding under?

You can find them here...

www.warriortalk.com

 

[Wildalaska]

Tuttle8, you doubt I can name them? What rock have you been hiding under?

You can find them here...

www.warriortalk.com

So you are alleging that mr Suarez and his ilk advocate the murder of unarmed folks who steal radios?

Wildwa'llmaybeiwilljustemailthemAlaska TM

 

[DougO83]

Ok...I simply step back from the vehicle and then throw as much body weight as I can into the door. Now we have a perp on the ground with a broken knee cap if he's lucky...

 

[supergas452M]

Did I say these folks would murder the scumbag??? No, I did not. I guarantee you they would take appropriate actions which would NOT include hidng in their homes waiting for the police to show up. If you doubt that why don't you ask Gabe, Sonny, and others how they would handle this scenario. For that matter, get hold of Chuck Norris and ask him what he would do.

Go ahead email them with your scenario.

 

[Trooper Tyree]

Go inside, start burn on CD, get boombox, retrieve freshly burned CD, go outside, plug in Boombox, plunk it down next to perp and start playing your freshly burned Britney Spears CD circa 1998 or so at earsplitting levels while dancing with an improvised miniskirt on. If that doesn't make him leave I think you're out of luck.

Seriously though, when you're dealing with crazy, you just have to make them think you're crazier.

That situation would never happen to me because of how my property is set up, fenced, dogs inside that are not friendly, but, since this is really just an exercise in thinking outside the box...

I have a Daisy BB pistol, chrome, can't tell it's not real at night. I'd walk up to the door opposite him, open door, toss it inside to the floorboard or seat beside him. Grunt "throwaway gun". Slam the door. Walk around to the other side, pull my piece and wait.

Note I'm not advocating throwaway guns or giving him a fake gun so you can shoot him. Not at all. We're just thinking outside the box.

What I am doing is guessing that someone cool enough to know that you can't shoot them for what they are doing, will know that the situation dynamics have changed dramatically now that they think I put a gun in the car with them. They will know that from the legal standpoint, you can shoot an armed robber. I'd expect them to get a whole lot more cooperative in a hurry.

They might ask to give themselves up, they might bolt and take off, or they might toss the gun out the window and tell you to quit interrupting them you're disturbing their concentration. If you have the right persona though, you could throw them off their game.

That's just thinking outside the box though. It would be better to not confront at all. I'd stay inside, maybe ban supergas for something to do, he's kind of annoying.

 

[supergas452M]

The silence is deafening isn't it Tuttle? Wild?

 

[DougO83]

supergas...if you have an issue, take it to PM. Do not sit around and attempt to incite flame wars. All that is going to do is get the thread locked. You are taking this way too seriously...it's teh interwebz...

 

[RedneckFur]

Pepper spray is cheap, and easy to find. Every gun owner should have a can for situations just like this. I keep a big can of it handy, and should I ever run into a situation like this, the robber will get sprayed.

 

[teeroux]

Well you could turn the garden hose on em and if he doesn't like it and comes out with a screw driver then shoot em.

Also I think here (La) technically you would be legal but still wouldn't look good on your part so much, you could jump in the car with him and then shoot him since he made forced entry. Though it would be hard to convince a jury its not bloodthirsty premeditated homicide since in this case you knew he was there.

La RS 14:20

(4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle.

No stipulation on you being in the vehicle when the entry is made.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338

 

[BillCA]

Thinking outside the box

I have a Daisy BB pistol, chrome, can't tell it's not real at night. I'd walk up to the door opposite him, open door, toss it inside to the floorboard or seat beside him. Grunt "throwaway gun". Slam the door. Walk around to the other side, pull my piece and wait.

Note I'm not advocating throwaway guns or giving him a fake gun so you can shoot him. Not at all. We're just thinking outside the box.

What I am doing is guessing that someone cool enough to know that you can't shoot them for what they are doing, will know that the situation dynamics have changed dramatically now that they think I put a gun in the car with them. They will know that from the legal standpoint, you can shoot an armed robber. I'd expect them to get a whole lot more cooperative in a hurry.

They might ask to give themselves up, they might bolt and take off, or they might toss the gun out the window and tell you to quit interrupting them you're disturbing their concentration. If you have the right persona though, you could throw them off their game.

For a good ole Southern boy who's mama didn't raise him to be makin' guesses in front of Yankee Captains, that's pretty good thinking Tyree.

A little psy-ops to play with his mind. If he tosses the gun out the car you could always mutter "Good. Fingerprints." to keep him wondering.

 

[BillCA]

If you doubt that why don't you ask Gabe, Sonny, and others how they would handle this scenario. For that matter, get hold of Chuck Norris and ask him what he would do.

*Sigh* - You miss the point Supergas.
I don't care if Gabe would use his ultra-tactical Akido wrist-grip to subdue the guy, or if Chuck Norris would beat the guy silly with a cream cheese dildo. The point of the exercise is to get YOU to think about alternative methods and tactics for dealing with someone who passively resists your orders, even at gunpoint. Once someone passively resists, the threat and/or use of your lethal force becomes legally questionable. So what can or will you do to stop him from committing a crime?

 

[BillCA]

Pepper spray is cheap, and easy to find. Every gun owner should have a can for situations just like this. I keep a big can of it handy, and should I ever run into a situation like this, the robber will get sprayed.

Absolutely. It's one place to start when his passive resistance negates the threat of your firearm. Depending on his position inside the car, you might spray some about his head & shoulders to see what kind of reaction that gets. If that's not possible due to body position, soaking the crotch area or the rear-end of his pants will probably take his mind off the theft business in less than 60 seconds.

And, as Dwight55 said, you could make a few $$ renting him your garden hose afterwards.

But like anything else, have some idea of a backup plan in case it turns out that he's not bothered by pepper spray.

 

[OldMarksman]

I cannot shoot him without major problems for my self,,,but really these genes should not be passed along.

I always carry a knife besides my Kimber 45 Ultra. Feet sticking out of my car door, ...

Someone actually thinks using a knife is OK when a gun is not?

Time to get some training.

 

[Dragon55]

Bill I see this thread is still alive today. Cudos!

My post yesterday which was a feeble attempt at comedy apparently started a flame war.(right before I went to play golf)

I've thought about this scenario some since yesterday. I guess the most sensible thing to do would be to get the video camera like someone suggested and film the guy.
If he is as self assured as he sounds in the description maybe he would tell you his name and where he lives. Even better, maybe you could get a closeup of his ID card.

It's just that I still have concerns for him or his friends return visits because:

1. Thanx to the wife he knows response time for the cops is 30 minutes.
2. In this neighborhood folks will watch you rob them while holding a gun on you.
3. And... they got really nice stuff such as GPS units and nice stereos in their
vehicles.

 

[OldMarksman]

I know quite a few expert trainers that would not hesitate to go out there and take whatever measures necessary to take this low life off the steets. I would be very happy to refer them if you so desire. These people are not just "expert trainers" they are warriors. Kind of makes the "expert trainers" argument moot doesn't it?

Not at all. Ya missed the point.

What you say a "warrior" would do is moot--thought I doubt your claim.

The comment was that expert trainers advise against it.

Usually, the advice includes both legal aspects and tactical aspects.

Referring to Suarez, he says that combat is something to be avoided if you can. Not that anyone reasonable has yet advocated going outside for the purpose of entering into combat (illegal everywhere), but has he ever recommended that a single person not sworn to enforce the law go outside alone to deal with a perp in the dark?

Do LEOs do that in non-emergency situations? Where I live they always come in twos or threes.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

The silence is deafening isn't it Tuttle? Wild?

Yes, it is....when it's 2 a.m. Most people that work during the day usually are sawing logs at night. I'm no exception.

As the OP and OldMarksman stated: It isn't the point and Mr. Suarez wouldn't have advocated avoidance. Your source is invalid to the topic of discussion.

Taking the high road, I'm sure your schedule is different from mine and I patiently await for your response.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

"I don't care if Gabe would use his ultra-tactical Akido wrist-grip to subdue the guy, or if Chuck Norris would beat the guy silly with a cream cheese dildo."

Heh.