Overcharged? . . . Yikes!

[LE-28]

I use Titegroup powder in my 9mms for all my practice ammo, not because it's cheap to use but because is one of the most accurate powders in 9mm with a 124gr bullet.

I use a LNL-AP for loading these and if anyone even so much as opens the door while I'm loading, I stop and empty the shell plate and dump the cases.
This practice has worked well for me for over 13 years of using it, with out a single mishap.
It's not the powder that is dangerous, it's the procedure used.

I get tired of hearing about how dangerous Titegroup is when there are so many other powders that are just as fast or faster that have the same issue with being able to double charge.
I use it because it's one of the most accurate powder for a 9mm, and 45 that we have.
It's not as position sensitive as a lot of the other fast burning powders, and it's reasonably priced. Unlike VV powders.
If I'm loading single stage with 9mms or any other handgun or rifle cartridge, when I'm ready to put powder in the cases, I dump the powder in one case, I check it and then seat the bullet before touching another case.
That pretty well eliminates the possibility of double charging a case from charging 50 at a time in a block.

 

[dahermit]

...It's not as position sensitive as a lot of the other fast burning powders...

Actually, it is position sensitive in very light loads (despite all the posted statements from the manufacturer and posters who just repeat what they have read).

 

[Radny97]

Looking carefully at the picture, it may not have been an overcharge. Notice where the case ruptured and more importantly, notice the primer partially backed out. This may have been an out of battery discharge.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jim Watson]

Please explain how a 1911 (or other Browning tilting barrel design pistol) discharges "out of battery" with a reasonably well centered firing pin strike.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Please explain how a 1911 (or other Browning tilting barrel design pistol) discharges "out of battery" with a reasonably well centered firing pin strike.

Maybe because the firing pin strike is not reasonably well centered and is off to one side.



A straight-on image of the base of the case would be more telling.

 

[Jim Watson]

That would be more informative. But how do you get "out of battery" "off to the side?"

I have several rounds of range pickup with light indents FAR off center. Far enough that the impact was sapped and the strike not hard enough to fire with the gun starting to unlock.

 

[mehavey]

200gr RNP/OAL:1.215"/TiteGrp/10.4(DOUBLE CHARGE)/80,000psi
Yup... that would definitely blow out the unsupported bottom/rear of the case.

Superclean cut edges there. Likely not case defect

 

[big al hunter]

Prof, I too am glad you were uninjured.

It appears you had a head separation. How many loadings were on that batch of brass? Were they all fired in the same gun, every time they were reloaded?

 

[Metal god]

Superclean cut edges there. Likely not case defect

Real question , no snark haha . When I saw the clean lines I thought case failure like casehead separation looks . Although as I'm writing this and looking at the pic . It look less like it pulled apart and more like it peeled apart a section .

To the OP is the other side of the case still intact or is that full head separation ?

EDIT : Oh big al beat me to it by seconds lol

 

[big al hunter]

Oh big al beat me to it by seconds lol

We think alike . While it is more common in bottle neck rifle cartridges, it is not unheard of in auto loaders.

 

[Metal god]

While it is more common in bottle neck rifle cartridges, it is not unheard of in auto loaders.

And revolvers , found this in some 357 brass I bought at the gunshow

 

[mehavey]

BTW: If bullet pushed back in case by just 0.2" --> 77,000psi

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Please explain how a 1911 (or other Browning tilting barrel design pistol) discharges "out of battery" with a reasonably well centered firing pin strike.

Stuck firing pin.

 

[Mike38]

BTW: If bullet pushed back in case by just 0.2" --> 77,000psi

Exactly the reason why I cringe when I read how people don't crimp .45acp. They say, just crimp enough to remove the bell and it's good. Nope, sorry, I'm crimping enough to insure the bullet doesn't get pushed into the case thank you very much. I'll sacrifice a tiny bit of accuracy to gain confidence that my pistol is not going to come apart in my hand, possibly taking fingers with it. I've had these fingers for over 61 years, I'm kind of fond of them.

 

[Metal god]

.2” is pretty close to 1/4” that’s a lot . I’ve found RP case walls to be thin and do hold the bullet less . That said when I got my 1911 it was the first 45acp I loaded for and I test of bullet set back using 200gr plated bullets . i would chamber the same round multiple times letting the slide fly home . While I did get bullet set back regardless of how much I crimped . Never did it get set back .2” not even .1” . I think I averaged something like .004 or so each time the same round was chambered . Although that 77,0000psi is an interesting number is it likely that’s what happen ?

 

[Prof Young]

More thoughts and info . . .

Yeah, I'm loading on a lee turret press.

That particular gun will not go back into battery if it is the least bit dry. But with that in mind I'd given this gun some lubrication with a very light oil at the start of this range session.

One other characteristic of this gun is a "lite" trigger. It does not do an unintentional double tap, but occasionally the thing fires again as I am resetting for the next shot. I've always assumed it was me and not the gun.

I haven't checked the firing pin yet. Will let you know if it's stuck.

No, the head did not separate all the way. Other side of the brass is still solid.

Suggestion to double charge a case and take a look is a good one. Need to learn what a bad goof looks like.

Lot's to learn.

Life is good.
Prof Young

 

[Unclenick]

Prof. Young,

Glad you weren't hurt.

I had a double charge like that in a 1911 back in '92 that jammed the gun in partial counterbattery, blew the grip panels, and damaged the rounds on top of the magazine stack. Fortunately, I was wearing glasses, so the bits of powder and a brass fragment that blew back out through the slide and frame way gaps didn't get in my eyes, though I did have to get the local doctor to fish a tiny fragment of brass out of my cheek. At the time of the accident, though bleeding a little from my cheek, I pounded the gun open against a bench, did a quick field strip and check and put aside the handloads, and then ran a couple of mags of commercial hardball through it before packing up and going to stop off at the doctor's office on my way home. My thinking was not to have the accident be my last memory of the shooting session. I think that helped, as I never developed a flinch from it.

When I got home, I applied my calipers to the barrel and found it was swollen, about 0.003" in diameter in front of the chamber. I suggest you check for that. I replaced the barrel on mine (had several lying around anyway), but expect that it would have kept shooting with normal loads, even if not to best accuracy.

The ammo that had the double was some I loaded on a progressive press. I later figured out a part had fallen out of the powder measure. I noticed it had been oddly wobbling back and forth when I was loading them, but I was in a hurry and stupidly decided I could ignore it and figure it out later. I still don't know if the problem with that one round was actually due to the operation of the measure or if, because I was hurrying and distracted by watching it, I somehow got out of synch with the process and removed and put back a charged case to be charged again. Out of 1000 rounds, that was the only bad one, as later pulling-down determined.

The lesson is not to ignore odd-looking behavior in loading equipment or get distracted by it or anything else. LE-28's suggestion to stop and undo any rounds on the machine when an interruption occurs is a good one.

I recommend the LED light kits available now for many progressive presses. They do let you see the powder level clearly.

Now to the OP's problem. This was not an OOB (out of battery) firing. You can tell by looking at the primer.

Notice that the expanded portion looks like a rimfire head. That is because ignition caused it to back out into the head clearance space and expand under the pressure and then pushed the case head back against it to reseat it, squashing the expanded portion. But after that happened, the slide was going back so fast it started to extract the cartridge while some pressure remained in the bore. That residual pressure was enough to push the primer back out, but not enough to expand it and not enough to push the head back to reseat it.

The opening in the case is all on the side of the case where the chamber did not support it fully. That area got "pregnant" to the breaking point and blew out, doing the damage. That's how most 1911 overpressure events go. The swelling actually helps force the case to back out of the chamber, and the break occurs along the crease impressed into it by the edge of the chamber. This can be seen by removing the barrel from the gun and re-inserting the blown case to line it up with the edge of the chamber. If this had been an OOB fire, the side of the case opposite the blown-out area would at least be swollen even if the lack of a crease prevented it from actually breaking. The photo does not appear to show that. A normal head separation would also have a thin area all around the case that would tend to break all around. Also, because the 45 Auto case backs up rather than sticking to the chamber, it doesn't normally stretch that area and get pressure ring thinning. It is why 45 Auto cases don't grow to need trimming.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Been there done that, messed up with Titegroup on my Loadmaster and I’m guessing a double charge in my Smith 627, blew three of the eight chambers and the top strap off. Luckily no serious injuries, something bounced off my forehead with just a scratch. I promptly pulled down all ammo previously loaded on the Loadmaster in both .357 and 9mm using Titegroup and sold/traded off all remaining powder. Traded my 8lb. Jug for 8 lbs. of Power Pistol a couple years ago and still haven’t figured out where I’m going to use that. I also mothballed the loadmaster, it was my sloppy procedure that caused it but if the loadmaster wasn’t always messing up it wouldn’t have happened. I now load all pistol ammo on a Lee Classic Cast turret with complete confidence.

 

[Average Joe]

Switch to Red Dot, almost impossible to double load.

 

[Prof Young]

Thanks . . .

Thanks UncleNick:

Great info and observations from you (as always.)

I'll check out the led light kit. I do have two big desk lamps with the adjustable arms at my reloading bench and move them so I can see into the brass, but that light is not direct and there are shadows.

I too was glad for my safety glasses when this thing blew.

Will check my barrel diameter as suggested. Query - How do I figure out what the diameter should be?

Life is good.

Prof Young