One Other Reason I believe Sling Shot is better than using "Slide Release"

[Tantrix]

I have many many hours of combat training involving handguns, nighttime scenarios, combat rifle/shotgun techniques, etc. From my experiences, the hand-over method is still best. The point here is being missed. The objective is to release the slide and/or release the mag with your weak hand so you do NOT rearrange or disturb your grip on the weapon with your strong hand. Some people can reach their slide release on their weapon fine with their thumbs, some cannot. Firearms vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and not all are the same size, design, etc... Once the hand-over method is perfected, it will not matter what firearm you are using, you will always be able to reload in a swift and effective manner.

In the event your weak hand is wounded and cannot fuction to release the slide, we use the "boot" method in which you kneel down and hook the rear sight on the heel of your boot, and push the receiver down in a swift motion. The same method is used when inserting a mag with only 1 hand available. The mag is held between the feet while kneeling down, and the magwell is placed over the mag as far as it can go. Tap the bottom the mag on the bottom of your boot then quickly hook rear sight on heel and release. After repetitive training, I can drop a mag, place new one into position, and release the slide in a little under 6 seconds keeping my left hand in my pocket. It is a very good thing to keep yourself proficient in, especially if you are in law enforcement. I teach these methods to civilians as well just in case they are ever in that situation themselves.

 

[abelew]

depends on the gun, my hk usp has a big lever that works well for me, and each time i work with it, i always use the lever, because thats what I am going to use. I firmly believe in repitition when it comes to these things. If I were to carry a glock, I would probably get a bigger lever, but thats me. I find it faster to use the lever, then insert mag, and then use the same hand that slid the mag in to pull the slide back, but thats just me. Gross motor skills are usually the ones you practice, and that are simple. Its one thing to argue that having to unlock your new S&W revo before using it in a high stress situation, but if you can get tap-rack-bang down, I think you can get pressing a slide release down (granting its big enough, and in reach of your thumb).

 

[Handy]

It seems like many of these posts are about using the slingshot to make up for a weapon that poorly fits the user. There's another solution for that problem.

 

[Tantrix]

It seems like many of these posts are about using the slingshot to make up for a weapon that poorly fits the user. There's another solution for that problem.

I agree that one should use a weapon that suits him or her best. However, if you train in a method that works for all weapons (hand-over) you will always be proficient and prepared no matter what the situation. One must always be ready for worst-case scenario.

 

[DT Guy]

I don't like when people start all this speculating about losing 'fine motor control' when TSHTF...the fact is, the finest motor skill involved in shooting a gun is trigger control and sight alignment, and if you're not doing that you're losing anyway.

If you've trained well, you should be able to do what you train to do when you need to; that's what training is for.


Larry

 

[k_dawg]

I tend to use the slingshot.. it goes hand in hand with the FTF/FTE/FTfeed scenario as well. That, and for non-slow firing, I do better with my left hand, and most of my firearms do not have an ambidextrous release.

 

[Detective_Special]

Slide Release

As a lefty, I have no choice but to use the slingshot method on my Glock 17 because the slide release is too far back to reach with my left forefinger. On my 1911 and HK USP 45 I can easily use my left forefinger with the HK being easier of the two. Both are good methods but I prefer using and having the option to use my stronghand (left) to operate the slide release.

 

[OBIWAN]

DS...Yes it is best to "never run out", but counting rounds is a fine motor skill

As an aside, if I reload with the slide closed, I ALWAYS rack the slide....because how do you know there was really a round left?????

Someone mentioned a Kahr....I sold my P9 but if memory serves Kahr did not recommend using the slide release...probably because it was very difficult to operate with the slide in tension.

As to the common argument that "trigger control is a FMS...so you are screwed anyway"....

That is probably why people empty their gun at a target at close range and miss...so look...you made the opposite point. (We should probably all carry swords!)

But most people can at least operate the trigger when they are amped...they may do it badly...but they are at least engaging in suppressive/diversionary fire ...

But if you can't operate the slide release....you brought a club to a gunfight.

I also agree with the person that mentioned the need to be able to operate any weapon....as John Farnam puts it " It is a come as you are war"

I have a metal pisture of Handy crouched behind cover yelling "Stop...do over...this isn't my pistol...mine has smaller grips and an extended slide release" (sorry Handy )

Come on people...other than Daves flyers...slingshotting is not a BAD idea...it is just another method....don't let our egos stop us from actually considering all the options.

The biggest danger is that we stop questioning.

"But gee Bill....if I admit there is another way...then I am admitting I might be.... ...just maybe be.....wwwww......wrrrrr...wwwrrroooo...
I can't say it...you know....not completely right!

Ah...the first step to enlightenment

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You know, this thread is a great example that shows that there really is a lot of confusion about what is or is not a fine motor skill and whether or not we will have fine motor skills during stress.

Pulling the trigger is not a fine motor skill, or it does not have to be. That is why folks manage to consistently be able to shoot guns under stress. Hitting the slide release (on guns where it is actually a slide release) is a gross motor skill, not fine. You simply need pressure directed in the proper direction and you don't have to limit the pressure or only apply it a certain distance. It is not a precise act. Same for thumbing off the safety on a 1911. It isn't a fine motor skill. You just mash down with your thumb all you want. The safety disengages and travels only a limited distance. No precision or fine skills needed. In fact, if your thumb is on the safety of a 1911, a full hand squeeze which is a gross motor skill, will disengage the safety.

 

[Handy]

Obiwan,

Funny you should send that my way. I'm used to many, many trigger/safety/slide release systems and use them all decently under competition stress. That includes P7s, heel release P9Ss, Glocks, 1911 - you name a funny place to stick a control and I have one and know how to use it.


This idea about being able to operate any pistol isn't such a bad one, but it isn't limited to the location of the slide release. You have to be generally knowledgeable about guns, or you won't know which lever is a safety, or which way to push that lever to fire. Just compare a Makarov and Beretta sometime. Pick up a P5 and release the mag first try. There is no "universal" set of procedures that work on any gun. But if you know where everything is you can catch up pretty well when confronted with something new.

 

[Complete Neophyte]

OK this is worrying me a bit.

I'm a newbie with a brand new 3rd gen Glock 19. I have no dog in this fight so not taking sides at all but maybe I'm missing something basic, or maybe just maybe (which is the part worrying me) the gun is doing something it shouldn't.

When the slide locks back on an empty magazine, I just drop the mag, slap in another one quite sharply and the slide automatcially comes back and chambers the first round.

What I'm saying is that not only do I not either "sling shot" the slide OR hit the slide release lever but I don't NEED to.

Maybe I'm reading something wrong here guys but should I have to do one of these things and if so why don't I? It sure sounds like I should have to and it makes sense from a safety point of view, but I don't. This is not a one-off occurence either. Every one of the 12 or so mag changes at the range on Sunday chambered a round for me without doing either of these.

Of course the other alternative is I should be hitting the slide release and putting the gun in battery BEFORE I insert a new mag, but that doesn't seem right either......

 

[Handy]

I tend to use the slingshot.. it goes hand in hand with the FTF/FTE/FTfeed scenario as well.

How are you going to clear an override FTE without also knowing where the slide lock is?


CN,

I'm suprised your Glock does that - most won't. USPs are usually the ones who do. The worry is that if the mag hasn't seated, but the gun jarred enough to release the slide, you'll jam up the gun. If you don't think it will be problem, work with it as is. If you are concerned, call Glock and see what they say.

 

[IanS]

Handy,

You're assuming that those of us who use the hand over slide method are completely ignorant of the slide lock and our own guns. In the event of a FTE or other failure the slide lock isn't difficult to find for anyone who is familiar with their gun. Anyone who knows their gun knows there is only one way to try to lock back the slide. Reach for the slide lock. These failure drills are exactly that. A drill so your body will react quickly through repetition. If I were using an unfamiliar gun I'd be fumbling for that lever under stress anyways.

 

[Handy]

You're assuming that those of us who use the hand over slide method are completely ignorant of the slide lock and our own guns.

I'm assuming nothing of the sort.

I was responding to K_dawg's post, which implies that the muscle memory developed by the overhand method is conducive to clearing jams. I was pointing out that developing muscle memory of where the slide lock location is just as essential for that same task. Taken a step further, the "gross skill" of manipulating the slide needs far less reinforcement than being able to locate the less obvious slide lock.

In essense, using the slide lock often is probably far more important for failure clearing than the slide, since the slide gets plenty of administrative handling already.

 

[OBIWAN]

Handy...my attempt at humor (at your expense) was related to your assertion that those who couldn't reach the slide release should get a new handgun.

As to glocks...yes, the slides often release on a reload...but it is the magazine insertion that does it...not the smack on the grip.

I have never seen it not catch and feed a cartridge.

I have had it happen with other weapons...just not as often

Luckily it is a gross motor skill

No muscle memory required

 

[MrAcheson]

The above method is not repeatable every time you load the gun. Dropping the slide with the slide stop is. It is the same every time. It replicates firing the gun and puts your first round into a repeatable lock up each and every time.

It is repeatable, but it is not the same motion as when the gun cycles after firing. In fact the opposite should be true. In a normal cycle the slide goes all the way back and then all the way forward. For the slide stop, it simply goes forward over a shorter stroke. Provided you slingshot the slide all the way back and then release, you should mimick the firing cycle better than just dropping the slide.

 

[Handy]

MrArcheson,

Since Dave is reporting his bench rest results, are you countering with your own, or just an opinion of what should happen?

 

[abelew]

I want my usp to drop the slide when I insert a mag, but it wont, darn it! Lazy man's slide release

 

[Dave Sample]

Hey guys! Back off. I have informed you of my opinion on how to lock up the first round in your 1911 so that it will be in the exact same place every time. I do this at home when I get ready to sally forth. I build these guns and have done so for over 20 years. I know how they work. We do not bench rest 1911's, Handy. Our targets are shot by an Ex Ranger/Special Forces Shooter standing on his hind legs shooting like a man. Bench rests or Ransome Rests do not tell us what we want to know. I know Joan Ransome and she makes a fine product. I think every range should have at least one Ransome Rest. I don't know how we git from loading up you pea shooter to gunfights, but I use a 12 gauge for gunfights if at all possible.
I could care less if you recognize common sense or want to debate this thing untill your fingers bleed. I do not know anything about these other guns because the 1911 has done all I ask for in a handgun for over 50 years. If you want to load your first round in a different postion every time, that is fine with me. We are only talking about opinions, not the right way or the wrong way. What is three inches at the start of a gunfight, anyhow. Maybe just win or lose...................................

This is a test fire target from a Norinco that I bought for $225.00 and tweaked a little. It has a stock barrel and bushing, but a new link and pin and the barrel has been cleaned up and worked over slightly. It was fired from the method I described. It is now a combat handgun. The sights were replaced so we wanted to know if it would do what it was told. The answer is obvious.

 

[seb5]

I personally don't prefer the slingshot but whatever works .......Anyway, for the last 5 years of shooting an issued tuperGlock I've never had the slide fail to go in battery with a loaded round if I use an aggressive mag insertion. That has become my standard reload. That's probably between 1500-2000 rounds a year for me.