On Duty: The Federal HST 45ACP

18DAI

New member
Excellent video and information! Thanks for posting it.

Yours is the 3rd video I have observed where HST 230 grain 45 failed when shot from a sub 4 inch barrel. That is why I do not use it in my short barrel 45 carry guns.

While HST recieves rave reviews and people point to how many agencies around the country are switching to it for duty ammo, I am not convinced that price point doesn't have more to do with that - than performance.

I will stick with RA45T. It has been killing bugs dead. For decades. ;) Regards 18DAI
 

fastbolt

New member
Okay, notwithstanding that synthetic gel might offer some differences when compared to organic gel blocks ...

A couple of the other major ammo makers who offer their own top end LE loads have reportedly told customers that their JHP designs are optimized to offer the potential for expansion down into the low 700's (depending, obviously, on the actual conditions encountered outside a lab, meaning shooting non-homogeneous gel blocks of any formula ;) ).

However, other "informal" tests have shown that even when using 3"-3.3"-3.6" .45's (shorter than the 3.78" of the G30/30S barrel) the 230gr standard HST can still expand in bare and "4 layer denim covered" (unknown weight of denim layers) synthetic gel blocks.

Randomly grabbed:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...ium-personal-defense-45-acp-hst-self-defense/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q28V7xQoZjc

After having seen how older revisions of the 230gr standard & +P SXT/T-Series loads performed when fired out of my 3.25" CS45, (test-shots of 802 & 839fps, respectively) I'm not at all concerned about using the assortment of RA45T, Golden Sabre or HST in my 3.25" & 3.75" short-barreled .45's.

Personally, I'm more interested in confirming how any particular load feeds & functions in my littlest .45's, especially when shooting 1-handed in "less than ideal" conditions, like rapid shot strings fired 1-handed from a close retention, hip level grip, and while moving within close range.

For me, the harder recoiling RA45SXT & RA45T, and the even harder recoiling RASXTP & RA45TP, offer some really brisk felt recoil in my small CS45 compared to other loads that aren't pushing the bullets quite so fast. I rather like the somewhat mellow felt recoil of the Golden Sabre load in my littlest .45, myself. Accurate, low flash signature, offers reliable functioning and it's accumulated a good record among LE users ... but it may not exactly be the cleanest burning load in the stable.

It's been so long since I've used the 230gr Gold Dot in my CS45 that I can't remember much of it, other than the felt recoil didn't seem bad, at all. I just don't have much of it left, as it's not often seen on store shelves in my general area, and it's not the most affordable load when it is on the shelves, and I haven't seen it being used by many agencies in my general area.

Even though the Speer 230gr GDHP is on the current state LE ammo contract, it's still more expensive than the Federal HST standard pressure load, so anyone wanting to make large orders my still find the HST to be the better deal. The difference may seem relatively minor at just less than sixty dollars per 1000rd case, but that can add up if you're going through a lot of shooters often enough.
Fed-P45HST2/1000rds/$0.3298rd/$329.80 per case
Speer CCI-53966/1000rds/$0.3897rd/$389.70 per case
 

wild cat mccane

New member
CCI/Speer and Federal are both owned by Vista Outdoors--which owns most US ammo too. ATK spun off ammunition to a sister company Vista and is the current ammo maker of Lake City Ammunition through Northrop Grumman. Lake City provides the DOD with all ammunition. This makes Vista the largest ammunition maker in the US, though Vista/ATK were also previously as they are the same corporation.

America capitalism--basically all one big corporation you didn't know was the same company :)

On to bullet failure:

You don't want bullets to fail by fragmenting or shedding it's copper jacket. It happens fast and you end up with a shallow failure (the good stuff of hollow points) and basically are left with an FMJ bullet after. So it's the worst of both worlds.
 
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T. O'Heir

New member
The local law enforcement community doesn't get a choice of ammo. They use what the higher ups buy for 'em. Just like the pistol they get issued. Which is highly unlikely to be a .45 ACP. Absolutely not a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454.
"...what the local LEO community carries..." The Ohio State Highway Patrol carry a SIG in .40 S&W. The Columbus Police Department has carried an S&W M&P 9mm since 2017. No mention of who got the ammo contract for either.
 

Mr.RevolverGuy

New member
T. O'Heir,

Maybe I did not make myself clear. Glock 30 and Glock 21 Models are 100% positive of a local department duty weapons. And there are 3 other community agencies that are issued them as well.
 

Tom-R2

New member
As far as the fragmentation issue, it's like everything else I suppose, determined by the totality of the circumstances. What those broken off pieces damage as they cut through tissue is important to the final outcome. If it's slicing major blood vessels it's having a major impact on the outcome, if it's simply slicing through a mass of fat cells, it isn't doing much. I had an on-duty shooting back in the 1980s with 3 +P level 115gr 9mm rounds. They broke apart and each piece cut a separate tract through the liver and aorta, and a few other parts. So, in my shooting, the splintering of the round either helped or didn't matter. Each shooting is unique as is the bullet path. It's still, and pretty much always going to be the damage done that determines the outcome. At least that's my opinion.
 

wild cat mccane

New member
No.

Fragments are not tumbling razor blades as you are imagining.

The failed HP is just a FMJ. No one is recommending an FMJ for self defense.
 

Bart Noir

New member
To continue the corporate engulf-and-devour saga, last month Northrup Grumman bought Orbital ATK, and the new company was renamed Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems.

Which has nothing to do with bullet fragmentation. Please forgive me.

"9mm often expands, but .45 never shrinks."

Bart Noir
Who actually carries 9mm.
 

wild cat mccane

New member
What stops Northrup from buying out Freedom groups bullets and essentially owning every single US bullet brand is beyond me.

Winchester is no longer a US company with parent ownership under FN.
 
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