This not good if your use this round
http://lawofficer.com/2016/05/suspects-carhartt-jacket-stop-bullets-shot-by-nypd/
http://lawofficer.com/2016/05/suspects-carhartt-jacket-stop-bullets-shot-by-nypd/
NYPD Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P round. failuer
- Thread starter michael t
- Start date
MuzzleBlast
New member
It's nonsense
This guy bought one of those jackets and shot it up with that ammo:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-124p-9mm-ammo-re-nypd-claim-stopped-bullets/
This guy bought one of those jackets and shot it up with that ammo:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-124p-9mm-ammo-re-nypd-claim-stopped-bullets/
lol, this ammo is currently in my carry gun, lovely.
I find it very very hard to believe that there isn't some mitigating circumstance that isn't being mentioned here. Something inside his jacket, shots were fired from 500 yards, fired through something before it reached the suspect...
Maybe the NYPD wants bigger guns
Bad news for Speer even if it's misleading.
I find it very very hard to believe that there isn't some mitigating circumstance that isn't being mentioned here. Something inside his jacket, shots were fired from 500 yards, fired through something before it reached the suspect...
Maybe the NYPD wants bigger guns
Bad news for Speer even if it's misleading.Spin story the NYPD is using to deflect criticism of the way they handled the incident. There isn't enough information with the article except the results, graphically depicted by the streams of blood running down the street.
9mm did the job.
A handgun round does not have a guaranteed ability to make a one shot stop. There is a link at the bottom of the articles page now:http://lawofficer.com/2016/05/test-does-a-carhartt-jacket-stop-bullets/
I imagine we will see dozens more Carhartts shot up to prove one thing or another. Interesting as to the waste of money the public is blowing on this non controversy. It deflects from the real issue - when confronted by a citizen who's not making rational decisions, the NYPD guns them to the ground every time, with bystanders usually getting hit.
It's smoke and mirrors by the NYPD PR spinners. Let no crisis go to waste.
9mm did the job.
A handgun round does not have a guaranteed ability to make a one shot stop. There is a link at the bottom of the articles page now:http://lawofficer.com/2016/05/test-does-a-carhartt-jacket-stop-bullets/
I imagine we will see dozens more Carhartts shot up to prove one thing or another. Interesting as to the waste of money the public is blowing on this non controversy. It deflects from the real issue - when confronted by a citizen who's not making rational decisions, the NYPD guns them to the ground every time, with bystanders usually getting hit.
It's smoke and mirrors by the NYPD PR spinners. Let no crisis go to waste.
Short article, very little real information. 9 shots fired, 4 stopped in the jacket, one killed the guy. Implied, but NOT stated, the other 4 hit him.
Few today remember (or never knew) that back in the days before modern JHP ammo was "perfected", hollow points being stopped by heavy clothing was a known problem they had to work at to overcome.
Apparently we aren't quite there yet, though it is much less common today.
Few today remember (or never knew) that back in the days before modern JHP ammo was "perfected", hollow points being stopped by heavy clothing was a known problem they had to work at to overcome.
Apparently we aren't quite there yet, though it is much less common today.
Footslogger
New member
I think i will hold off on setting my hair on fire and running in circles.
Vt.birdhunter
New member
I thought hollow points clogged by heavy clothing penetrate FURTHER than if they had expanded.
If the bullet tips clogged from the jacket, shouldn't they have behaved similar to a FMJ round?
If the bullet tips clogged from the jacket, shouldn't they have behaved similar to a FMJ round?
This is what most often happens. Bullets stopping in heavy clothing does happen, but its very rare. Most often HPs that don't expand act just like regular RN slugs.
What amazes me most about this is that 4 (four) bullets stopped in the Carhartt "work jacket". 4 think about that
not just one "fluke" happenstance, 4 shots out of 9 that just isn't right IF what we are told is correct, it was a normal jacket, something is seriously wrong with the ammo.
What lot# of ammo the officers used probably can be learned, I'd be surprised if CCI hasn't checked on that already.
I am a bit curious would like to know if all 4 rounds that failed came from the same gun, or not. Not that the gun had anything to do with it, I'm just curious to know if they all came from one officer, or if both had "bad" ammo.
Until they discover it has "too much recoil" and the guns are too big for smaller officers hands....then they'll look into the .40 S&W....
Under charged rounds are the most likely reason. Major QC issue, if that's actually the case.
I wonder if we will ever hear anything else about this incident, that isn't some kind of grandstanding BS from NYCPD....
Time will tell...
bonus points for catching the FBI/10mm analogy....
the only thing this story does is reinforce the need to practice malfunction drills. Its no surprise out of millions of ammo produced each year some bads ones fall into circulation. Ive actually had to recently reject a box of premium Hornandy SD rounds to range fodder because they were not fully crimped properly. In the case of undercharged loads the officer is lucky one didnt result in a squib....
the only thing this story does is reinforce the need to practice malfunction drills. Its no surprise out of millions of ammo produced each year some bads ones fall into circulation. Ive actually had to recently reject a box of premium Hornandy SD rounds to range fodder because they were not fully crimped properly. In the case of undercharged loads the officer is lucky one didnt result in a squib....
In the linked vid above the tester shoots that jacket with some pretty weak rounds. All of which penetrate BOTH sides and exit.
What kind of "weak loading" would fail to penetrate the jacket but still FUNCTION the pistol? I betting even with careful load development you could not replicate that specific power level.
What are the odds it was just a fluke? Im betting there are other factors at work here. NYPD may not be releasing the whole story
What kind of "weak loading" would fail to penetrate the jacket but still FUNCTION the pistol? I betting even with careful load development you could not replicate that specific power level.
What are the odds it was just a fluke? Im betting there are other factors at work here. NYPD may not be releasing the whole story
deerslayer303
New member
I wear a Carhardt jacket daily during winter months. I guess I can cancel my body armor order! [emoji2]
Sorry guys, couldn't resist.
Sorry guys, couldn't resist.
zincwarrior
New member
Lets see... we believe the NYPD which has an interesting relationship with the truth, or do we believe Speer which is trusted across the US. Yea I think I know which way I am going on that one.
I don't know about Carhartt jackets but I do know a Speer 124 grain will indeed kill a couch, if that couch has offended you and must pay for its insolence...
I don't know about Carhartt jackets but I do know a Speer 124 grain will indeed kill a couch, if that couch has offended you and must pay for its insolence...
deerslayer303
New member
Carhardt jackets are just heavily woven fabric like denim. And not much thicker either. Before you know it the libs will want to ban the bullet proof Carhartt
Vt.birdhunter
New member
My thoughts as well.
Would they have cycled the slide?
If the officers gun had a FTE or similar malfunction, I would assume LE would mention it to the media as a possible vector for the anomaly.