Now Firearm Tragedies Aren't a Matter of 'Bad Things Just Happen'

[Drizzt]

Now Firearm Tragedies Aren't a Matter of 'Bad Things Just Happen'

"Accidental Shooting" is now an Oxymoron

Tuesday April 26, 2011, 7:50 am EDT

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla., April 26, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Improved Guns, Inc., a not for profit company, is founded to promote the US Pat 7,036,258, which is aimed at eliminating accidental shooting. The passive device is a pin that must be broken before the gun can be shot. Any firearm can be adapted by drilling a small hole in which to insert the appropriate pin. These pins are made with incremental breaking thresholds having a range of 11.5-15.5 lbs. Improved Guns, Inc. can easily retrofit all guns at our cost, although donations are appreciated. Hopefully, new guns will soon include this device.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Now-Firearm-Tragedies-Arent-a-prnews-1109835283.html?x=0

Not that they were a matter of 'bad things just happen' to begin with...

 

[Evan Thomas]

Another well-intentioned but basically dumb idea, IMHO... Drill through the trigger guard or the trigger itself (photos on their website, here), and screw in a fiddly little pin -- which if you leave it installed in your carry or HD gun, turns the nice trigger (which you perhaps worked hard, or paid good money, to get that way) into a 12-16 lb monster, and in the process ruins your chances of making an accurate shot when you need to.

And if you want to practice with the gun, you'll need to unscrew the thing first, and then not lose it while it's out of the gun... and remember to replace it when you're done. And you'll need replacement pins for all the times you forget to bring the right screwdriver to the range with you, and have to break the thing with your first shot...

There might be people who'd have this installed on their guns voluntarily, and be willing to go through the aggravation for whatever added safety it would offer. But they're probably the people who already are conscientious about keeping their guns safe. As something to be installed at the factory, I don't see much point: what are the chances that the average buyer won't just remove it, or "forget" to replace it after pulling the trigger and breaking it?

And if you look closely at the photos on their website, none of them show the side with the screw head. Looking at the installation on what I think is a 1911 trigger, there's not enough meat to recess the screw head, and if it's projecting, it would render the gun completely inoperable.

At that rate, the technical term for this is "scam," I'd say.

Oh, and in the picture of the pins, a bunch of them are rusty... "Really? You want me to send you my pistol so you can drill a hole in it, leave little metal shavings who knows where, and insert a rusty object in the hole? Sorry, pal..."

 

[nathaniel]

IMHO pins are for grenades not guns.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

That's a really, really bad idea.

Besides, just buy a revolver. Dint they have 12lb triggers anyway.

 

[Spats McGee]

I agree with nathaniel: pins are for grenades.

This part of the article amused me:

Gun makers' reception to this life saving device has ranged from contempt to cold indifference . . . .

They forgot "laughing so hard that they peed themselves."

I'm also not sure that I really believe that the "fact is a heavy trigger pull improves not only gun safety, but the on target accuracy with the first shot of a rapid-fire sequence," as the manufacturer claims.

 

[Evan Thomas]

I'm also not sure that I really believe that the "fact is a heavy trigger pull improves not only gun safety, but the on target accuracy with the first shot of a rapid-fire sequence," as the manufacturer claims.

Umm... yeah. They seem to be operating on the assumption that anyone who has to use a gun "for real" will be so freaked that they'll pull the trigger before the gun is on target...

If the heavy trigger pull produced by this gizmo improves accuracy, we'll see competitive target shooters lining up for them, right?

 

[Rachen]

IMHO pins are for grenades not guns.

So those pins are exclusively made for Glocks I guess

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

All jokes aside, that is one of the most STUPID ideas I have ever heard
And where do these guys get their statistics for all those "gun accidents?" They are effectively rare when compared to far deadlier automobile accidents. Perhaps we should make a pin that goes in the gas pedal of cars and they can only be removed after you take a test proving that you are smart enough to drive.

 

[Kodyo]

Another gun invention made by those who don't know the first thing about guns.
At this point, they are trying to take all liability out of owning a gun. Instead of just relying on common sense (Which I reckon can be taught).

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Another gun invention made by those who don't know the first thing about guns.

No, I think they not only know the first thing about guns, but know that there are a bunch of idiots who own guns and who do stupid stuff with them.

At this point, they are trying to take all liability out of owning a gun.

If they could take the liability out of owning a gun, I think a Nobel Prize would be in store for them.

Instead of just relying on common sense (Which I reckon can be taught).

I am not sure you know the first thing about common sense. By some definitions, common sense isn't taught, but what is generally held "in common" with other.

Merriam-Webster Online defines common sense as beliefs or propositions that most people consider prudent and of sound judgment, without reliance on esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what they see as knowledge held by people "in common".

From Dictionary.com...

sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence.

 

[Jimmy10mm]

Gee, thanks for this, gotta get one for my mint Python

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yeah... I've never seen any evidence that common sense can be taught, at least past childhood. Of course, I've never seen an adult acknowledge that they lack common sense and submit to being "taught" either. It's kind of a Catch-22... You'd need common sense to tell you that you lack common sense...

Anyway, I don't believe that most safety devices actually enhance safety. In fact, I would argue the opposite. Artificial devices invite complacency and reliance, just the opposite of "safety".

 

[Kodyo]

By definition, common sense can't be taught. But you could say that it's just a figure of speech and that there is no such thing as common sense to begin with. This is because it is widely dependent on where you grew up or who your parents are (among other things).

I personally think that you CAN learn common sense, maybe not by its definition as an instinct, but that it can be common knowledge not to do something.

For example, I know nothing about cars (let's say at all), and I put diesel instead of gasoline in my gas car.
To someone who works on cars, common sense would say you aren't supposed to put diesel in a gas engine.
Now I go to a car college and learn about cars and know that you can't do that. See how it can be dependent on culture now?


Also, when I mentioned liability, i was referring more to avoiding the use of your brain, rather than trying to come up to a be-all-end-all safety mechanism.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I'm also not sure that I really believe that the "fact is a heavy trigger pull improves not only gun safety, but the on target accuracy with the first shot of a rapid-fire sequence," as the manufacturer claims.

+1. A heavy trigger pull by itself isn't going to make a gun child proof. To even imply that is naive at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

By definition, common sense can't be taught. But you could say that it's just a figure of speech and that there is no such thing as common sense to begin with. This is because it is widely dependent on where you grew up or who your parents are (among other things).

I personally think that you CAN learn common sense, maybe not by its definition as an instinct, but that it can be common knowledge not to do something.

For example, I know nothing about cars (let's say at all), and I put diesel instead of gasoline in my gas car.
To someone who works on cars, common sense would say you aren't supposed to put diesel in a gas engine.
Now I go to a car college and learn about cars and know that you can't do that.

You are confusing the differences between common sense and knowledge from formal education. A person with knowledge may still make mistakes due to a lack of common sense. For example, being the automotive engineer that you are after your aforementioned hypothetical college education on the topic, you may still put gas into your diesel powered car because you failed the common sense problem of actually checking to make sure the pump that you were using was for the proper fuel despite having all the knowledge in the world one why the fuel is not appropriate.

 

[Kodyo]

I concede, you are right. Let's get back to the topic.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

^^^^
That's right, DNS.

Common sense is essentially the ability to apply knowledge to a situation DIFFERENT than the situation from which the knowledge originated or applied.

The engineer that puts diesel in his gas car is a good example. He SHOULD now better, he SHOULD have the sense to check but he doesn't APPLY the knowledge.

Another factor in common sense is "foresight"... seeing the potential results of action (or inaction) and acting accordingly.

"Foresight" and "cross application" of knowledge are basic components of common sense and I'm not at all sure they can be taught.

This IS on topic, BTW, since the necessity of the device being discussed would be heavily reliant on still using common sense. A heavy trigger, even 12-ish pounds, has been on many a gun over the tears and I doubt it's prevented Stupid from being stupid.

 

[Eghad]

In all my years being associated with the military If I had a $1.00 bill for the phrase G.I Proof I would be a rich man.

The worlds best safety device is the user and the rules I know the NRA has three but I always use rule no. 1.

1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.

2. Always point the muzzle in a safe direction; never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot.

4. Keep the action open and the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.


I remember visiting a friend's house and he wanted to show me his new lever action rifle. He handed it to me. I pointed it in a safe direction with my finger off the trigger and worked the action to view the chamber. Out popped a round of ammo The rules work.

violate the rules and bad things happen.

 

[pelo801]

how about innate sense? wouldn't be very common though, would it?

 

[DaleA]

Hee Hee Hee! Those guys at the Onion!!!

Oh wait, this is real?

 

[Casimer]

This modification isn't even safe for it's intended application. It's an exposed shear pin!

If the average person were to see a pin obstructing the trigger of a firearm, they would assume that it prevents the gun from firing. They're not going to recognize that it's designed to break at a specified shearing threshold. So they'll assume that it's safe to pull on the trigger. And the threshold to breaking the pin is high enough that the force required would likely result in an ND. Ten or fifteen pounds may be high for a trigger, but it's still not a lot of force.

I don't begrudge people have silly ideas, but this guy is making claims that aren't true and are actually dangerous.

e.g.

Because of our invention as well as the increasing number of accidental shootings, some members of the firearm industry have raised the trigger pull threshold to nearly nine pounds of finger pull. The resistance to making this change is because all shots require the same pull. The old saw of “making the first shot count” is rarely true when shooting automatic pistols. The fact is a heavy trigger pull improves not only gun safety, but the on target accuracy with the first shot of a rapid-fire sequence.