Not registration but...

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Aguila Blanca

Staff
FITASC said:
it's obviously to your advantage to have a record of whom you sold it to in the event that some time in the future the gun is used in a crime and traced as far as you.
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No, it really isn't. They knock on your door, you tell them you sold it to some guy 15 years ago (or whatever the truth is) and you you do not remember his name. - Done.
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Unless they don't believe you ...
 
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armoredman

New member
FITASC, you are right - it's 20 years, been out of the business for about 16 years, had a brain fart, my bad.

Aquila Blanco, in this state there is no requirement to keep records of firearm sales between law abiding private parties. I know some people who do, do that, but it's entirely voluntary.
 
2

2ndsojourn

New member
From the OP:
"Can law enforcement look up what you have purchased by your name? For example, can a law enforcement (local Sheriff for this example) pull up what rifles and handguns you have purchased? Do they have the serial numbers, make, model or calibers able to be reference?"


In NJ, yes. To buy a handgun you need a handgun purchase permit. It's a four-part carbon copy which lists the make, model, caliber and serial number. One copy goes to the state police, one copy to the local police, one kept by the seller and one kept by the buyer. I'm sure it's entered into a state police database and there's at least one way to sort out who owns what.
 
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Don P

New member
And this, of course, is what gives rise to the argument that periodically resurfaces over whether or not to give/get a bill of sale when buying or selling face-to-face. As the seller, it's obviously to your advantage to have a record of whom you sold it to in the event that some time in the future the gun is used in a crime and traced as far as you.

On the other hand, buyers who aren't in states that require registration often don't want any paper trail leading to them.

'Tis a conundrum, for certain.
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Excellent advice, for a bill of sale. Sold a handgun, bill of sale used. Buyer had CCW & drivers license, all looked good. Gun was used in NJ in armed robbery. Sheriff knocked on "MY" door. The way it works, LE calls manufacturer, manufacturer gives LE distributors name. Distributor gives LE retailers name. Retailer gives LE 4473's name. Hence, a knock on the door:eek:
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
Don P said:
Excellent advice, for a bill of sale. Sold a handgun, bill of sale used. Buyer had CCW & drivers license, all looked good. Gun was used in NJ in armed robbery. Sheriff knocked on "MY" door. The way it works, LE calls manufacturer, manufacturer gives LE distributors name. Distributor gives LE retailers name. Retailer gives LE 4473's name. Hence, a knock on the door
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That's the problem.

I fully understand and sympathize with a buyer's desire to avoid a paper trail. I share that preference. But, once a gun is mine, in the unlikely event that I might do the unthinkable and sell a firearm, I want proof that it left my possession. So, yes -- I guess I'm admitting to a double standard.

My solution, which (sort of) avoids the hypocritical position of requiring a bill-of-sale when I sell but refusing to provide personal data when buying, is to swallow the 15% and sell any guns I decide to unload through an FFL on consignment. In a sense, I'm "putting my money where my mouth is" by paying that 15% commission fee for the peace of mind of having documented where a gun went when it left my possession.
 
5

5whiskey

New member
The information must be kept by the retailer for ten years, after that there are no records.
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Others have addressed the correction in length of time. I will also say that the records go to an ATF warehouse if the FFL closes or if the FFL purges records older than those required to be kept. The "records" are never allowed to be discarded or destroyed. It's my understanding (from a friend who is ATF) that the warehouse records cannot be digitally cataloged because of the law prohibiting registries, and a record must be searched for by hand. Needless to say, ATF gun traces on such records are quite slow. It may take longer than 6 weeks.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
I can tell you that NY state never forgets a pistol. I got a NY pistol permit in 75, (at age 18) and it had my Dad's pistols listed on it (for protection of the pistols, as well as my use of them).

I moved out of NY in 79. in 2002, NY sent me a letter, informing me that, since I was no longer a NY resident, my permit was now invalid, and THEY WANTED IT BACK!!! (a wallet sized, NON-Laminated piece of paper issued in 1975, and they wanted it back!!!!)

They also wanted to know where the pistols listed on the permit were....

I was tempted to tell them to go pound sand, but opted for thunderous silence, instead. Never heard another word from them about it...
 
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armoredman

New member
I would have gone with the pound sand, myself. What are they going to do, send Bloomberg and his minions after you?
 
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JWT

New member
Absolutely incredible that NY would want a piece of paper returned after that amount of time, or after any time for that matter. We have entirely too many bureaucrats in government when they sit around and trace paper that ancient.

One wonders if they actually expected a reply.
 
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