not a real 1911???

[Double Naught Spy]

The first Model 1911 was submitted to the Army for testing in -- you guessed it -- 1911. .

Um no. The prototype for the 1911 was first submitted to the military for testing in -- you were 5 years late -- 1906. It was not adopted until 1911. Several changes were made by the military before being adopted in 1911 that did include the grip safety. Keep in mind that the gun was not a "1911" before adoption in 1911 and so features such as the grip safety are original to the 1911.

The most noticeable included changing from a flat mainspring housing to an arched mainspring housing and the addition of the grip safety. This model became known as the Colt M-1911 A1 Government Model or, simply, the 1911 A1 Model. That's right, there is no grip safety on a true 1911.

No again. The arched mainspring housing, cutouts behind the trigger, etc. came about in the early 1920s. That was the 1911-A1. The grip safety was in place in the original 1911.

So, the next time you go into that gunshop, ask him to show you a "true 1911" without the grip safety

Now that would be just plain silly.

 

[RickB]

How could a 1911 be submitted for testing in 1906? The (M)1911 was the result of five years of testing, it wasn't a test piece itself.

 

[gyvel]

Don't you think that the term 1911 has just become more generic with all the makes and models available?

Absolutely. This is a phenomenon that occurs often.

Usually, but not always, it will be a registered trademark that becomes genericized.

Some good examples are: kleenex, fridgidaire, coke, aspirin, linoleum, browning, winchester, yo-yo, escalator, zipper, band-aid, google, xerox, thermos and a whole bunch more, all of which are/were registered trademarks, but which became generic through extensive colloquial use.

In this case, "1911" would be more accurately described as a synecdoche, in that it is being used to describe a general class of guns which share similar/identical characteristics.

Now; Aren't you sorry you started this thread???

 

[Edward429451]

No man, can't you guys read? 1911's are only Colts and maybe a couple models Springfield Armory basic stuff.

 

[Dragon55]

A Colt 1911 in 1911 is way different than Colt 1911 in 2009 as is a

Chevrolet Impala in 1955 is way different than one is in 2009

 

[gc70]

For what it's worth, Colt does make/has made: a 10mm 1911 (Delta Elite), and a .38 Super 1911, and a 9mm 1911, ... oh, yeah, and that other one... a .45 acp 1911! (And I have heard about at least one other chambering in the Colt 1911s also.)

9mm Steyr would be another caliber.

 

[Jart]

Death of a cliché.

Actually several are now dead or on life support:

"Only a Colt is a Colt"
"If it isn't a Colt it's a copy"

RIP.

I've never been a Colt basher or fanboy but putting the prancing pony, snakey-looking "C"olt and "Hartford" on a zamak Umarex / Walther rimfire pretty much buried the keyboard macros.

Walthers are Colts
Colts are copies.

Perhaps the single greatest licensing blunder in the history of the universe.


Anyhow, I prefer STI 2011s - they've fallen even further from the 1911 tree than most.

It's just as well.
I didn't like clichés anyway.

 

[Hank15]

Single stack, ergonomic grip, superb balance and a niiiiiiiiiiiiice trigger is my definition of a real 1911.

 

[gyvel]

9mm Steyr would be another caliber.

And .22lr.

And, Lo! I forgot: .30 Luger, too.

 

[HisSoldier]

I recieved my second DW, a Marksman, a few weeks ago, my gunsmith held it and looked it over and said "You know, the quality of 1911's is much better than they ever were before". Before seeing that gun he had only seen the old DW revolvers, didn't know they now made 1911's. I told him that DW's had earned a very good reputation for their 1911's.

I'd like to own a 10MM too.

 

[KyJim]

Double Naught Spy said:

The prototype for the 1911 was first submitted to the military for testing in -- you were 5 years late -- 1906.

But that's not what I said. You misquoted me. I didn't say anything about prototypes. I said: "The first Model 1911 was submitted to the Army for testing in -- you guessed it -- 1911." I was referring to the torture tests: "The guns produced were submitted again for evaluation, to the committee. A torture test was conducted, on March 3rd, 1911. . . . On March 29th, 1911, the Browning-designed, Colt-produced .45 Automatic pistol, was selected as the official sidearm of the Armed Forces of U.S.A., and named Model 1911." http://www.m1911.org/history.htm. The gun wasn't known as the Model 1911 in 1906.

Quote:
The most noticeable included changing from a flat mainspring housing to an arched mainspring housing and the addition of the grip safety. This model became known as the Colt M-1911 A1 Government Model or, simply, the 1911 A1 Model. That's right, there is no grip safety on a true 1911.

No again. The arched mainspring housing, cutouts behind the trigger, etc. came about in the early 1920s. That was the 1911-A1. The grip safety was in place in the original 1911.

I already corrected the part about the grip safety being on the original, adopted model as opposed to the prototypes. And I did say that the the arched mainspring housing was the change from the Model 1911 to the Model 1911 A1.

So, your post was really unnecessary. Not sure why you bothered.

 

[mec]

It's kind of like asking " what is a real bowie knife." they take so many forms that the easy answer is "What isn't"

This might not be a "real 1911" to a true purist because it was made in the first decade of 2000:

 

[orionengnr]

People get hung up on irrelevant issues.

There, fixed it for you...

 

[mec]

well done!

 

[nitetrane98]

A Colt 1911 in 1911 is way different than Colt 1911 in 2009 as is a

Chevrolet Impala in 1955 is way different than one is in 2009

Oh goodie, a chance to nitpick. First year for Impala was 1958.

 

[m.p.driver]

After watching Colts demise on quality control i'll take a Springfield or Dan Wesson any day.

 

[Chris_B]

Guys, as far as I know, Colt is in fact the only maker that makes 1911s

Everyone here with the exception of Mec has either talked about or posted photos of a 1911A1

 

[bluetopper]

Any gun store clerk boy who puts down the firearm of a customer should be fired.

I've seen sooo many gun store clerks who think they know it all through the years and it makes me sick.

 

[Chris_B]

Any gun store clerk boy who puts down the firearm of a customer should be fired.

I've seen sooo many gun store clerks who think they know it all through the years and it makes me sick.
__________________

Agreed. There's a place I didn't go for 5 months because I walked in and asked for ammo. The immediate question was what gun it was for. When I told the clerk, he said, "That thing is junk. Get rid of it". I turned on my heel and walked out.

I was told he wasn't there any more. I went back and got 250 rounds of 9mm for 75 bucks, so I was pleased

 

[44 AMP]

What is a real 1911? Simple answer....

A semi auto pistol, made by Colt, for the US govt, between 1911 and 1923, and marked 1911. Period. End of discussion.

Colt never made a 1911 (or an A1) for sale to the civilian market. Colt sold "Government Models". We just have taken to calling them 1911s in recent decades.

Modern guns made to 1911 specs (and even made by Colt and marked 1911) are reproduction 1911s.

It is possible to find "real" 1911s with 1911A1 parts. Military policy was to maintain all 1911/1911A1 guns with A1 parts. If a particular 1911 stayed in GI service long enough to need replacement parts, those parts would be 1911A1 parts. And they would be "correct", from a collector's point of view. I have done this myself back in the 1970s as a Small Arms repairman.

Any other 1911 pattern pistol is just that. Call it a 1911, or 1911A1, or what ever the maker names it. But it isn't a "real" 1911. Any collector will tell you that.