not a real 1911???

[troy_mclure]

i was at a local shop today looking for 10mm 1911 mags, when he asked what gun for, i told him a Dan Wesson razorback.

he replied "thats not a REAL 1911".

i have heard this several times, about various brands/models.

so what IS a real 1911?

 

[rjrivero]

Colt.

Everything else is an imitation.

In all seriousness, who cares what folks think? When they start buying me guns, I'll let them criticize the choices in my safe. Until then, it's my dollar. It's my choice.

 

[sserdlihc]

In all seriousness, who cares what folks think? When they start buying me guns, I'll let them criticize the choices in my safe. Until then, it's my dollar. It's my choice.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[RickB]

Maybe he meant that a "real" 1911 is a .45?

 

[raftman]

When he said, "That's not a real 1911." You should have had said, "No, it's better!"

 

[AZAK]

Colt.

Everything else is an imitation

This statement does echo a lot of people's thinking on the 1911. And many consider any 1911 pattern pistol by any maker a 1911. "You say toe-may-toe and I say toe-mah-toe..."

For what it's worth, Colt does make/has made: a 10mm 1911 (Delta Elite), and a .38 Super 1911, and a 9mm 1911, ... oh, yeah, and that other one... a .45 acp 1911! (And I have heard about at least one other chambering in the Colt 1911s also.)

 

[Playboypenguin]

I am sorry, I am as big a Colt snob as most people but a 1911 is a design...not a brand. A DW Razorback IS a 1911...and a damn nice one.

Here's mine...

 

[whiplash]

Dang gun *orn, there goes another sweeeet pic. Thats about as nice as anything else. Wish I had one...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Colt.

Everything else is an imitation.

As designed mostly by Browning. How ironic.

So what is a real 1911? Well, it isn't a 1911A1, which is what most of the clone guns are.

People get hung up on relevant issues. A real 1911, while good, wasn't the be all to end all of guns. It had lot's of room for improvement and some improvements were made as a result and the gun became the 1911A1. Still the gun wasn't perfect for everyone. However, every deviation makes it not a "real 1911" from one narrow perspective.

 

[troy_mclure]

I am sorry, I am as big a Colt snob as most people but a 1911 is a design...not a brand. A DW Razorback IS a 1911...and a damn nice one.

Here's mine...

i know, its been my background for a few months now! lol

 

[cecILL]

Don't you think that the term 1911 has just become more generic with all the makes and models available? Fifty years ago a 1911 was a 1911. Those are the "real" 1911s. That is what a "real" 1911 is, and what the shop guy was talking about. Colt, among others, has been making the "real" 1911 somewhere aroud a hundred years.

 

[Sevens]

I know for a fact that I do not get to decide what is, and what is not a REAL 1911.

But, if my opinion matters on any particular day... my criteria has always been about parts. It becomes more of a "real" 1911 when you can use 1911 parts here, there and everywhere, and make them work with a little bit of fitting.

Thus, IMO, pistols such as Kimber (with their weird schwartz safety), Taurus, RIA, Armscorp, etc, are REAL 1911's.

Pistols such as Llama, Star, Springfield's EMP, Coonan, Para's LDA, and those that cross the line with parts compatibilty do not fit my criteria of what is a "real" 1911.

 

[Scout]

Good answer...interchangeable parts. In the Army, our 1911's were from various manufacturers.

 

[rjrivero]

Colt.

Everything else is an imitation.

In all seriousness, who cares what folks think? When they start buying me guns, I'll let them criticize the choices in my safe. Until then, it's my dollar. It's my choice.

FWIW, My "Colt" comment was meant tounge in cheek. I've heard that A LOT about 1911's as well as AR style rifles. I don't subscribe to that particular point of view what so ever. Sometimes sarcasm is difficult to convey on an internet forum. I thought the smilie may help to show "intent."

 

[RickB]

Don't you think that the term 1911 has just become more generic with all the makes and models available? Fifty years ago a 1911 was a 1911. Those are the "real" 1911s. That is what a "real" 1911 is, and what the shop guy was talking about. Colt, among others, has been making the "real" 1911 somewhere aroud a hundred years.

Fifty years ago, they weren't called 1911s. That's become popular only in the last ten-fifteen years. Prior to that, they were ".45s", or "Colt .45s". As more non-Colt companies started making them, non-Colts were called "clones", since they were generally copies of Colt or G.I. pistols. As production guns started to include more and more of what had been custom features, another name was needed and "1911" has stuck.

 

[KyJim]

Actually, I don't know of any "real 1911s" being made.

The first Model 1911 was submitted to the Army for testing in -- you guessed it -- 1911. After adopting the pistol, the Army asked for some changes. The most noticeable included changing from a flat mainspring housing to an arched mainspring housing and the addition of the grip safety. This model became known as the Colt M-1911 A1 Government Model or, simply, the 1911 A1 Model. That's right, there is no grip safety on a true 1911. So, the next time you go into that gunshop, ask him to show you a "true 1911" without the grip safety.

Since then, there have been any number of variations and modifications of the 1911 A1: the beavertail grip safety, firing pin block/safety, the bobtail and many others. The Dan Wesson is an excellent and representative sample of what most people today refer to simply as 1911 pistols or 1911 style pistols. The gunshop guy probably just didn't like the bobtail, an external modification which has no effect on the mechanical operation of the gun itself.

 

[Playboypenguin]

The first Model 1911 was submitted to the Army for testing in -- you guessed it -- 1911. After adopting the pistol, the Army asked for some changes. The most noticeable included changing from a flat mainspring housing to an arched mainspring housing and the addition of the grip safety. This model became known as the Colt M-1911 A1 Government Model or, simply, the 1911 A1 Model. That's right, there is no grip safety on a true 1911. So, the next time you go into that gunshop, ask him to show you a "true 1911" without the grip safety.

That is true...which would make my Detonic pistols closer to a "true 1911" than any of the other ones I own. See...no grip safety.

 

[RickB]

Thr grip safety, and the thumb safety, were both in place when the M1911 pistol was adopted. The final prototype, also bearing both external safeties was called, I think the M1910 Special Army. Prior to that, there were M1910 prototypes without thumb safeties, but I think they all had grip safeties. Prior to that, there were protoypes in various configurations, some without external hammers, grip safeties, etc.

 

[KyJim]

Thr grip safety, and the thumb safety, were both in place when the M1911 pistol was adopted. The final prototype, also bearing both external safeties was called, I think the M1910 Special Army. Prior to that, there were M1910 prototypes without thumb safeties, but I think they all had grip safeties. Prior to that, there were protoypes in various configurations, some without external hammers, grip safeties, etc.

I do think you're right about the grip safety on the original 1911 as adopted. The prototypes did not have the grip safety but were added before the date of adoption. Sloppy on my part. The original 1911 did have the flat mainspring housing and some other minor differences from the later 1911 A1.

I think the main point is that the gun underwent design changes over the years. Many of the things we see today are improvements over the original 1911/1911 A1 designs while others are, arguably, a step backward.

 

[sholling]

As far as I'm concerned as long as it looks like a 1911, has a 1911 SA trigger, both a thumb and grip safety, and mostly interchangeable parts it's a 1911. If it has a DA trigger or no grip safety (pinned is ok) then it's a 1911 style pistol because the looks are a matter of styling it to look like a 1911. That leaves a lot of room for variations and improvements.