Northern Illinois University shooting?

[The Tourist]

its one guy with a screwed up view as to how to vent rage.

I'd like to first thank you and PT111 for taking an open minded stance.

As to your last comment, the odds are that you are absolutely right. For some reason, set off by some stimuli, the guy opened fire. However, let's let the authorities give us all of the facts.

My main argument is that we first look to his medicine cabinet in an effort to rush to judgement on his reasons and mindset.

I can hear many of you saying, "Well, isn't that the real reason?"

Okay, I'm bipolar. Let's assume that we here at TFL read a link from the WSJ saying "Biker Beats Student Senseless." Since the details might be sketchy, someone says, "Hey, that's Chico and he's a mental patient." Within a few more posts someone remarks, "Gee, I wonder if he's off his meds?" And by the end of the page another member here is certain to post, "He always did give me the creeps."

In a very shorthand way, we are doing that same thing now.

But for the sake of the debate, let's suppose that my wife and I went downtown to the theater district My wife was accosted by a Nazi skinhead who simply happened to be a student. I defended her.

My diagnosis, my ownership of a motorcycle, the Nazi's registration as a student and the injuries he sustained would all be meaningless. In the effort to beat the competing media to the punch, the sensational aspects of the story were placed up front, the truth taking a decided back seat. The actual story was simply routine self-defense.

But, "if it bleeds, it leads."

Don't make that same mistake every time some tabloid starts identifying people as "patients." It boils down to the same epithet used to describe you as a "gun nut."

 

[grymster2007]

"Biker Beats Student Senseless."

Tourist, Tourist! C’mon, how about “student beats biker to his senses and he stops talking about being a biker”?

Psychotic people on their meds should stay on them and once they start, they should continue until the Dr. prescribes otherwise. If that’s maybe, just maybe what's keeping them from shootin’ up the local mall, they ought to be monitored.

If I stop my meds, well maybe my head pops off from the pressure and rolls around the floor. The circle of grief is limited to a few (probably fewer than I imagine) family members and friends. You’ll hear nothing in the media. But when one of these whack-jobs stops his meds… you see what happens… it takes a toll on all of us.

So yes; it’s OK to question whether someone has been skipping his or her mental health drugs and it’s seems to be a good start in these cases.

 

[The Tourist]

Psychotic people on their meds should stay on them and once they start, they should continue until the Dr. prescribes otherwise.

This might be a popular misconception, but it is totally untrue.

I take Wellbutrin because it makes me feel better. If I stopped, I'd be on a mania/depressive cycle that lasts about four years before repeating itself.

Let me repeat that for the students of outcome bases education. I take meds because it makes me feel better--not because society at large will ever be in danger.

There are so many urban legends about patients and meds that conventional wisdom is total mullarky. If you hear a story about a patient--and it comes from someone who is not a doctor--it's either exaggerated, wrong, or an outright lie.

 

[grymster2007]

This might be a popular misconception, but it is totally untrue.

So psychotic people should stop their meds anytime they please?

If you hear a story about a patient--and it comes from someone who is not a doctor--it's either exaggerated, wrong, or an outright lie.

Really? Every story but from a doctor’s mouth? That’s a pretty bold statement!

I stick by my post. Monitoring is in order in some cases and not only is it OK to look in the medicine chests of whack-job murderers, but also seems to be a good start!

 

[The Tourist]

I stick by my post.

That's because you're uninformed and persist on staying that way.

A bipolar who goes off his meds is more likely to go on a spending spree (quite common in a mania) or get depressed and fall asleep.

Statistically, a well-rounded, comfortable employed, happily married parent and responsible TFL member is more likely to commit murder than a patient.

The problem here--as always--seems that the unfounded, Hollywood portrayal of a screaming axe-wielding nut-job is more comfortable to blame than the people out there actually doing the killing.

Here's another fact you're going to hate. Bipolars don't spree kill for another important reason--we're more intelligent than the average American. In fact, bipolars hold the highest IQ scores in any cross section you'd care to proffer. So much so that I often warn "sane people" not to play cards for money with bipolars.

In corresponding with you, I'd guess a bipolar once handed you your hat in a high school class debate.

 

[Musketeer]

Tourist,

You make plenty of valid points bu this

Statistically, a well-rounded, comfortable employed, happily married parent and responsible TFL member is more likely to commit murder than a patient.

is completely unsupported speculation on your part put forward as fact.

Rampage killers are all suffering from mental illness and have a gun. That doesn't mean all the mentally ill and gun owners are rampage killers. At the same time when you see multiple indicators lining up the individual needs closer observation. A simple Bi-Polar doesn't scare me. A Bi-Polar who goes off his meds doesn't have me ducking for cover. But a Bi-Polar off his meds, with a short temper and a recent fascination in accumulating firearms sets off the alarm.

 

[grymster2007]

Tourist,

You don’t know much about me. The vast majority of the details of my life have not and will not be aired on this forum. So how is it that you presume I’m not bipolar? Or schizophrenic? Or depressed? You don’t know and I’ll not tell.

As for having my hat handed to me in a debate with a bipolar person, I simply don’t know if that’s happened. I do know of one such person that appears highly unlikely to do so. Yet, even so, I’ll make every attempt to accept my hat with grace should I find it handed to me, as opposed to firmly affixed to my noggin as is it’s current state.

I really wish you wouldn’t take it as a personal affront when I point out absurd statements you’ve made. You made them, not me. I’d be happy to amicably chat with you regarding guns and their accessories, as well as the legal and political issues relative to them any time, but I really can’t resist pushing back just a bit when you make statements notable only for their lack of sense.

Claiming that only doctors can tell true stories about patients is a broad, indefensible statement.

Claiming, without any basis in fact that a well rounded, comfortably employed, happily married and responsible TFL member is more likely to commit murder than a patient, is another statement you cannot defend.

Opposing checking the mental state and history of, including the drugs taken or prescribed to murderers makes no sense. Any and all evidence pertaining to heinous crimes and possible triggering factors of such crimes should be and is in fact fair game and claiming it’s not is absurd.

It appears that you’ve interpreted my term “psychotic” as “bipolar”. That is simply not the case. I did not single out those suffering from bipolar syndrome, nor did I exclude them. I refer to anyone out of touch with reality.

Try google-ing “mentally ill murderers” and you’ll find many links to articles suggesting that the mentally ill commit many heinous crimes. This is not to suggest that they commit more crimes than drug dealers, mafia and gangsters in general, but I do believe a summary of the most heinous of murders not committed by the afore-mentioned groups, would indicate that a very large portion indeed are committed by mentally ill people, many of whom were taking or should have been taking medication for their illness.

Hat check! Yup, it’s still there!

Your turn!

 

[The Tourist]

Claiming, without any basis in fact that a well rounded, comfortably employed, happily married and responsible TFL member is more likely to commit murder than a patient, is another statement you cannot defend.

It's an obvious fact. Sane people kill more than patients. Depressed patients sleep.

Look, obviously you're out of the loop. You have all of my posts here, copy them and take them to a psychiatrist (with credentials mind you) and ask him/her if any nuance of what I have reported is incorrect.

The problem is that you have no knowledge or schooling, you just think my posts "don't sound right."

And that's the problem sufferers face. The biggest threat to a wife's safety is her husband, not a bipolar. But that doesn't fit the image of a bipolar in a hockey mask replete with a chainsaw.

Here's some advice. Before you slander patients anymore with info you found with a divining rod, either study the conditions and the people or STFU. It's hard enough simply living through manias and ramp ups without having to deal with bigots, as well. Read a book.

 

[grymster2007]

Relax Tourist. Since you’re being real defensive about this, I’ll stop. I don’t mind pointing out someone’s shortcomings, but my intent is not to get someone, who's probably a decent fellow, all riled up. It’s really not worth it.

Take care,

 

[TheBluesMan]

We'll all stop.

This has wandered far from the original topic and is getting personal.

Closed.