No HK/PTR, FAL, little M1A interest here?…

[stagpanther]

After the fall of the Soviet Union, they were, before that, they were "unobtainium" simply not available at any price, and the same for their ammunition.

Chinese Norinco SKS's and AKs were plentiful on the US market in the early/mid 1980's; the SKS's available for under $100 and the AK's around $100/$125. I bought my first one back then. 50 pack 7.62 x 39 was around $5.00 to $10.00 IIRC. They were sometimes being given away at car dealerships and other commercial sales promotions drawings.

 

[44 AMP]

The "official" date is 89, when they tore down the wall, but the Soviet Union was "falling" some years before that, and of course, didn't control the Chinese.

 

[std7mag]

I guess I have 2 "battle" rifles.
Or none, depending upon what you claim as a "battle" rifle.
1) M1 Carbine Paratrooper
2) Keltec Sub 2000

The M1 Carbine is a really fun rifle to shoot! But for some reason always got a bad rap as "underpowered". Personally my experience is about 357Mag energy on targets. The gallon jugs of water react about the same at equal distances.

Interestingly enough, the Sub 2000 has the same recoil impulse as the M1 Carbine.
Still fairly accurate out to 100 yards with open sights (front sight is fully adjustable).
And the reverse HK slap is kinda fun. Lol

 

[44 AMP]

1) M1 Carbine Paratrooper
2) Keltec Sub 2000

By my definition of "battle rifle" I'd say yes to the M1 and no to the Keltec.

The M1 Carbine makes it, because of what it isn't, it isn't an assault rifle.

The Keltec doesn't make it because its not chambered in a rifle cartridge, its 9x19mm or .40 S&W.

 

[HiBC]

Without being a gun builder, the unique type of enthusiasm on FALfiles still mystifies me to a large extent. I’ve spent many hours reading. The unusual ie “my Argy/ Izzy on an Imbel receiver etc” is far beyond that of AKfiles.

Maybe the interest on FAL is simple collecting more than building, but if so, how do they know which mixes of milsurp components are the most interesting combos?

Long ago, I bought an STG58 kit and built a rifle on a DSA receiver. The FAL has its history. Its a great battle rifle from its time.

For my old,out of shape self, it (and the steel magazines) are just too darn heavy to carry on a long walk for fun. For myself,its a gun to drive to the range with. Its fun to shoot. It looks cool. But...that does not make ME look cool.
Few images are more ridiculous than a semi-old,semi-fat, semi-ambulatory guy
decked out and armed to look like a Mike Hoare mercenary. I look better with a Rolling Block.

I have a DPMS LR 308L . Out of the box 7.9 lbs. Like the AR-15,its a grown man's Barbie Doll. Infinite options. The FAL.not so much.

You can,(and I did) scope an FAL. OK. But the receiver cover with clamp screws is an adaptation. The rail top on the AR-10 clones is superior.

Accuracy? For 3 to 5 shots MY FAL was pretty good. Better than 1 1/2 MOA at 100 yds with IMI ball. Then it warmed up and walked. The design is great for a battle rifle but the AR-10 clone is inherently EZ make very accurate.

My free floated DPMS shoots quite well for a production sporter.

The FAL trigger sucks. Its not friendly to improvement. The original DPMS trigger was fine. I think it has a Jewell now. Trigger improvement is "just buy one"

The AR-10 clone owner has infinite options to "Have it your way".

Not so much with the FAL. Its hard to make it anything greater than a dated,heavy,iron sighted battle rifle, A darn good one!! With "Cool" and history. Granted!

For my tastes, I get everything the FAL has to offer in a more elegant ,historic (for me) rifle with a CMP M-1 Garand with the additional option of organized shoots.

Though I am not a Veteran, I have done night infiltration courses with both the M-14 and the M-1. I prefer the smooth belly of the Garand over the prodruding box of the M-14 ,FAL,etc when negotiating bushes and barbed wire without being detected.

With respect to SR-420 (Who prefers the Harley Davidson of battle rifles)

If a person were to ask me "How should I spend my money? " on the rifles in question, I'd say an AR-10 clone or a CMP Garand, depending on the "feels"

Note Garands and AR-10 clones are prominent in the forums.

 

[rickyrick]

For me the FAL was a one-and-done scenario.

If I want another one, or another version, configuration, etc. then it’s basically another $1000 minimum.
If I want to read through FAL messages boards, there’s all I could ever want at Falfiles with less quality moderation.

 

[Ignition Override]

Rickyrick: True.

Have been reading FALfiles since January, but some deceptive comments there —in Jan— about DSA rifles’ QC, regarding those produced in 2022 (their quality improved about five years ago) caused me to spend about $800 more than necessary, for a 'Non-DSA' rifle.

I only wanted a —reliable FAL—.

Some of those guys on FALfiles Conflate the prestige of collector components ( vs. US-made parts) with actual reliability. That can be dishonest and very misleading.

Months after January (too late) I finally learned that African Park Rangers often use modern DSAs against nasty poachers- some of whom belong to insurgent/guerrilla factions.

 

[44 AMP]

Over the last 50 years I've owned a lot of the semi auto versions of the common battle rifle class, and had experience with a lot of others, including many select fire and full auto arms.

I was in the last Army trained class of Small Arms Repairman that covered the M14 rifle. I've got hands on experience with all the US, German and Canadian service arms of the 70s up through belt feds, and a small familiarity with some of "the enemy's" arms as well.

Liked a lot of them for some of their features, disliked some for the same reasons. Happy to share what I know, just ask.

I don't do "collector" stuff in the sense of prizing a specific combination of parts makers over another, generally just having a functional example (and in decent shape) is enough for me.

Its as much sentimental, for me as anything I guess, but the M14 (M1A) just always fit and felt best to me, and while all the others I've had I've let go to others who wanted them more that I did, I've kept my M1A.

Mine is "rack grade", nothing target or match or "tacticool" about it. All GI parts on a Springfield Armory receiver. Its my favorite.

 

[RKG]

U.S. M1 Garand (got it back when the DCM drew names from active National Match shooters for right to buy one for $65).

U.S. M1 Carbine (got it back when you could find ads in Shotgun News for super short money, rifle and ammo).

SA M1A (got it in a weak moment several years ago; NM barrel and sights).

Attached photo taken a friend shows my M1 in mid-cycle, ejecting both brass and clip.

Love them all, but my favorite is the M1A. Spent some time doing load development and settled on 168 gr. SMK and 42.2 grains of RL-15. Rifle outshoots me every time. In fact, two years ago I plopped three rounds in 1-1/2” at 300 yards. I suspect a bit of luck that day and haven’t duplicated yet, but I’m still trying.

Edit: Photo too big a file to upload.

 

[rickyrick]

Photo too big a file to upload.

Try the Tapatalk app

 

[Ignition Override]

And you guys have the highly-trained shooting skills which Allow you to compare.

All of this ‘bit’ me far too late in life, but with Uncorrected vision, being able to do some fair iron sight shooting at 50-100 yards, and Mostly the rifles’ military designs/character pretty much compensate for undeveloped skills.

A little bit of “Zen” with battle rifles?

 

[44 AMP]

A little bit of “Zen” with battle rifles?

Not quite sure what you mean by "Zen", but there are things that will increase your harmony....

One of them is not just knowing, but understanding what you are using, and why it is made the way it is, and does what it does.

With milsurp rifles (all classes, actually) I find shooting things is more enjoyable than shooting paper targets. What I mean is, if you want to shoot teeny groups, there's guns for that. And while some battle rifles might do it, they were never made to do that, and its foolish to expect that.

For me, something like an offhand shot busting a water filled 2L pop bottle at 150 yds (with an SVT 40) was more rewarding than any paper group off the bench.

Sights and triggers range from pretty good to horrid and crude and part of the fun is the challenge of being able to use them as well as one can.

Remember that they are made for young(er) men to use, and for unexperienced men to be easily trained to use to a military acceptable level.

Shoot paper groups enough to be sure th bullets will hit close to point of aim, not several feet away, but don't try to make an MOA shooter out of them. IF you find one that is, ENJOY it.

Shooting plastic bottles or cans or other things that react, but allow relatively easy range clean up afterwards is great fun, for me, and friends. Balloons are really fun, tethered on a few feet of string, they bob and weave and aren't always as easy to hit is one might think.

I take the broad view, "battle rifles" to me are any and all the military pattern rifles that are not "assault rifles" (and here, I am using the actual, proper definition, NOT the current political one) , and while most people think in terms of the HK/FAL/M1A etc., I include all the "battle rifles" of their day, which includes the bolt actions, single shots and even muzzle loaders of the era.

I guess my point here is to enjoy the history, the shooting, and not to expect anything they aren't and were never made to be.

It can be a form of meditation, if you approach it from the right state of mind.

Just don't ask me to get into a full lotus position,
couldn't do that 50 years ago, no way its happening now,

 

[44caliberkid]

The guys on the FAL Files always said that Century built FALs were crap, but both mine are Century builds, one on an STG58 parts kit and the other from British parts. The STG58 was a Clinton Ban era gun, so does not have a flash hider or bayonet mount. They both go bang every time and accuracy is standard for what I see and hear for all FALs, about 3 to 4 inches at 100 yards. (Minute of terrorist) Neither has any problems. Maybe I just got lucky.

 

[SR420]

If it happens, this will be my final M14 build.

Semi-Auto M14K type SEI

It will probably come in a different stock.

 

[smee78]

Looks short and compact Sr420, a handy little rifle for sure. I have never been a fan of barrels shorter than 18" for a 308, to much blast and concussion for me.

 

[Skans]

All I can offer is why I didn't end up buying a PTR-91. I wanted one and intended to purchase one. I even bought an HK collapsible stock for it. Then, I saw a 308 I wanted more than the PTR-91. It was a K&N bullpup M17s, which I ended up purchasing. The felt recoil of the K&N was lighter. The K&N is easier to keep on target for follow-up shots. And, it is at least, if not more, accurate. Then, the compactness is unbelievable. Shorter than the PTR is even with the collapsible stock.

Anyway, I am so happy with my K&N bullpup, I don't think I'd even consider buying another .308 that isn't a similar bullpup.

 

[44 AMP]

Having survived the failure of a .308 case in a conventional bolt action rifle, long, long ago, I've never been comfortable with the idea of the chamber being closer to my face, since then. Also, I don't care for the balance of bullpups, over all, and there's none in my arms lockers.

Just a personal preference, enjoy yours!

 

[Ignition Override]

Guys/gals: my “skills” have never been able to do 3-4 MOA much beyond 25/30 yards , and I’ve never owned a scope.

The guns’ military character are the appeal.

Quite frankly, if I were to die in a week (hopefully it’s hypothetical), whether or not I had the best skills would make no difference. Why pretend…

Simply blasting clay pigeons with my .308 rifles or VZ-58, or an empty juice bottle at 50-100 yards is much more rewarding.

 

[wachtelhund1]

I attended HK armourer skool. Does that count?

4V50 Gary, Did you learn anything about the older HK sporting rifles or just the modern stuff?

 

[SR420]

The M14 clone owner also has infinite options to "Have it your way", especially when the Blackfeather RS chassis stock system is used.