New PSA barrel...these rings on barrel normal?
- Thread starter wild cat mccane
- Start date
stagpanther
New member
Their lowers have always been a great value--I used to snap them up in batches when they could be had for $39 and $49 each and never a problem running them.
So you're upset with the finish on the barrel exterior (which is normally concealed under a handguard) and posted a picture at 10X to emphasize the issue (or non-issue, as you please).
Real question is how does it shoot?
Because that's the real proof right there. I've had really pretty barrels that didn't shoot for squat, and barrels that looked like crap on the outside that shot fantastic.
Real question is how does it shoot?
Because that's the real proof right there. I've had really pretty barrels that didn't shoot for squat, and barrels that looked like crap on the outside that shot fantastic.
You CAN bet your $ on how cool your gun looks. Thats up to you.
Most "pretty darn good" barrels are button rifled . The bores are rifled while the barrel s a straight rough blank. IIRC,its roughly 1 5/16 rough turned OD. Not real pretty.
The barrels are turned and profiled after the blank is rifled.
The manufacturer certainly can decide how to spend the costs of producing that barrel. Who writes the definition of "Quality" ?
It can boil down to how the customer feels about the product received for the dollar.
I'm not a benchrester. I don't pretend to know the benchrest game. I get the idea they go through a lot of heavy barrels. Some might thread and chamber and crown a rough blank as received. They might prefer to avoid inroducing any machining stress to the barrel.
Those turn marks may not matter to a guy who expects 500 or 1000 rounds of .087 MOA accuracy before changing barrels. Darn fine barrels.
An old school Custom Gunsmith might have spent 1/2 day or more putting a finish turn on a barrel with Hi-Speed,his Atlas, etc . Thats a guess. I'm not an Old School Custom Gunsmith.
Thats from the days of 1 MOA was remarkable. 2 MOA as decent. And the barrel may have been a Milsurp But it looked pretty.
Whether that AR barrel shoots a full choke pattern or bughole groups, turning it down from a 1 5/16 blank (wild guess) take 3 minutes of CNC lathe time. Or 6 minutes. Going back and taking a "pretty cut" might triple that AND up the scrap/blem rate.
What do you want to spend your over $100 an hour machine time on?
Some would say give it a coat of flat black hi-temp header paint.
And some want futuristic weird blue anodized aluminum sci-fi furniture,
Its all good. ` If $250 gets me a sub MOA barrel that has clean machining cut by a sharp tool and is not battered by rough handling, I don't really care whether the machine feed rate was set on .005 or .018 per rev.
Its not about "cheaping out" or cutting corners. Its about efficiency,cost,and value.
Most "pretty darn good" barrels are button rifled . The bores are rifled while the barrel s a straight rough blank. IIRC,its roughly 1 5/16 rough turned OD. Not real pretty.
The barrels are turned and profiled after the blank is rifled.
The manufacturer certainly can decide how to spend the costs of producing that barrel. Who writes the definition of "Quality" ?
It can boil down to how the customer feels about the product received for the dollar.
I'm not a benchrester. I don't pretend to know the benchrest game. I get the idea they go through a lot of heavy barrels. Some might thread and chamber and crown a rough blank as received. They might prefer to avoid inroducing any machining stress to the barrel.
Those turn marks may not matter to a guy who expects 500 or 1000 rounds of .087 MOA accuracy before changing barrels. Darn fine barrels.
An old school Custom Gunsmith might have spent 1/2 day or more putting a finish turn on a barrel with Hi-Speed,his Atlas, etc . Thats a guess. I'm not an Old School Custom Gunsmith.
Thats from the days of 1 MOA was remarkable. 2 MOA as decent. And the barrel may have been a Milsurp But it looked pretty.
Whether that AR barrel shoots a full choke pattern or bughole groups, turning it down from a 1 5/16 blank (wild guess) take 3 minutes of CNC lathe time. Or 6 minutes. Going back and taking a "pretty cut" might triple that AND up the scrap/blem rate.
What do you want to spend your over $100 an hour machine time on?
Some would say give it a coat of flat black hi-temp header paint.
And some want futuristic weird blue anodized aluminum sci-fi furniture,
Its all good. ` If $250 gets me a sub MOA barrel that has clean machining cut by a sharp tool and is not battered by rough handling, I don't really care whether the machine feed rate was set on .005 or .018 per rev.
Its not about "cheaping out" or cutting corners. Its about efficiency,cost,and value.
wild cat mccane
New member
Variation between two like products is a production deviation that customers shouldnt expect though...
Production drawings (blueprints, if you please, but no one uses real blueprints anymore) specify surface finish. Production equipment is set up to meet those specs, and spending time and money trying to do it any better is generally frowned upon. When you are making parts on machinery that costs millions of dollars, you want to keep the rate up as high as possible. Most production equipment is CNC anymore, so no human is involved other than putting the pieces into a feeder and removing them, no opportunity to go over the parts to "pretty them up". If you require a prettier exterio finish, you'll have to pay for it. And in the case of rifle barrels, that money is best spent on the inside rather than the outside of the barrel.
wild cat mccane
New member
PSA sells blemish though. This is not a fine finish.
I get your point, but just because it is rough doesn’t make it good either.
I get your point, but just because it is rough doesn’t make it good either.
It's normal. It's not blemished. I've seen it on lots of barrels from various maker
If this was a high-end product, you might get some traction arguing with the seller that it should have been polished to a smoother finish. You will get zero traction trying to claim that it's blemished. It is absolutely not blemished, it's just not finished as finely as it could be.
It will have absolutely no effect on functionality.
This will come across as snarky, but that's not how I intend it. I don't think that you should be buying from places like PSA that are primarily price-point oriented. There are high-end makers out there and I think you would be much happier with that kind of product.
If this was a high-end product, you might get some traction arguing with the seller that it should have been polished to a smoother finish. You will get zero traction trying to claim that it's blemished. It is absolutely not blemished, it's just not finished as finely as it could be.
It will have absolutely no effect on functionality.
This will come across as snarky, but that's not how I intend it. I don't think that you should be buying from places like PSA that are primarily price-point oriented. There are high-end makers out there and I think you would be much happier with that kind of product.
i agree with HiBC and others that are talking feeds and speeds
the name of the game is rip it off...rev it up and throw the feed to it...my guess is that blank got two roughs at say .150,maybe only one rough and finish pass of maybe .060 (carbide dont do well without tool pressure) and the operator/machinist put another blank in and pushed the go button...or it could be a feeder set up and it (the machine, more than likely a 5 or 6 axis turning milling center) just keeps making barrels till the operator pushes the stop button
does it hurt anything....nope...just cosmetic
or maybe, just maybe that finish was put on there for a reason...like it needs to be a little rough to take the final finish...may save a sand blast step. kinda like when you parkerize, it needs to be rough for the chemicals to work and get the finish that is wanted....this is just a thought, but could be
well thats my .02
ocharry
the name of the game is rip it off...rev it up and throw the feed to it...my guess is that blank got two roughs at say .150,maybe only one rough and finish pass of maybe .060 (carbide dont do well without tool pressure) and the operator/machinist put another blank in and pushed the go button...or it could be a feeder set up and it (the machine, more than likely a 5 or 6 axis turning milling center) just keeps making barrels till the operator pushes the stop button
does it hurt anything....nope...just cosmetic
or maybe, just maybe that finish was put on there for a reason...like it needs to be a little rough to take the final finish...may save a sand blast step. kinda like when you parkerize, it needs to be rough for the chemicals to work and get the finish that is wanted....this is just a thought, but could be
well thats my .02
ocharry
Final lathe pass feeds / speeds is your answer.
Read the post about the HSS cutting tool vs a carbide radius insert w chip breaker. That response is spot on and combined w a required surface finish per drawing. A < 32 microinch finish is what an American consumer would expect, the military or budget consumer would accept a 63 or 125 microinch finish.
FWIW, Soviet Mosin’s have that finish if not worse. 10 years ago machine time was $100 / hr but is now likely $120-140 / hr.
Simple tool room lathe example is a 16 inch carbine barrel. 660 rpm at 0.003” / rev is an 8.1 min pass, even at 900 rpm is a 5.9 min pass. A standard pass of 0.015” / rev at 660 rpm vs 900 rpm is a 1.6 min or 1.2 min pass respectively. Saving 6 mins per barrel would decrease cost $10-20 a barrel. Now double or triple that for an auto production machine.
Read the post about the HSS cutting tool vs a carbide radius insert w chip breaker. That response is spot on and combined w a required surface finish per drawing. A < 32 microinch finish is what an American consumer would expect, the military or budget consumer would accept a 63 or 125 microinch finish.
FWIW, Soviet Mosin’s have that finish if not worse. 10 years ago machine time was $100 / hr but is now likely $120-140 / hr.
Simple tool room lathe example is a 16 inch carbine barrel. 660 rpm at 0.003” / rev is an 8.1 min pass, even at 900 rpm is a 5.9 min pass. A standard pass of 0.015” / rev at 660 rpm vs 900 rpm is a 1.6 min or 1.2 min pass respectively. Saving 6 mins per barrel would decrease cost $10-20 a barrel. Now double or triple that for an auto production machine.
wild cat mccane
New member
Sent it back. Probably cosmetic, but also noticed the crush washer on the flash hider was way askew.
Hope someone else enjoys it. Hopefully everyone is right that cosmetic defects actually improve shot placement
Hope someone else enjoys it. Hopefully everyone is right that cosmetic defects actually improve shot placement
jetinteriorguy
New member
So, just out of curiosity. Did you ever shoot it? If so, how did it shoot?
wild cat mccane
New member
No. Never did. They said it was a blem and offered 30 store credit or to take it back. I think the crush washer is in the pic too.
i have on order an aero atlas s one. But i
t is from opticsplanet and i am 3 weeks into waiting for ship.
the psa atlas s one copy also wasnt that great. The aero has a low profile tube so the handguard is way smaller.
overall didnt like the psa for everything compared to the aero i just got in wylde. So going with them for only a hundred more.
i have on order an aero atlas s one. But i
t is from opticsplanet and i am 3 weeks into waiting for ship.
the psa atlas s one copy also wasnt that great. The aero has a low profile tube so the handguard is way smaller.
overall didnt like the psa for everything compared to the aero i just got in wylde. So going with them for only a hundred more.
jetinteriorguy
New member
I have an AERO complete rifle and it’s a very good rifle. The only observation I’d add in my case is this. It’s a Ballistic Advantage, stainless, .223Wylde, 1/8 twist 18” barrel. When new it was a solid MOA shooter, but with a specific load was a solid 3/4MOA rifle. As I shot the rifle more, it became more accurate and shaved about 1/8MOA off these statistics. With my setup it’s a bit on the heavy side, but being a range toy it doesn’t bother me.
wild cat mccane
New member
Just got a new Aero Atlas S-One 15" hand-guard 16" barrel 5.56 delivered.
Will post up observations. Hopefully not the same ch issues I had with my Aero Wylde barrels (2).
Will post up observations. Hopefully not the same ch issues I had with my Aero Wylde barrels (2).