New old Gun day - Mauser 98

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mikejonestkd

New member
Good day all, I found a much loved mauser 98 today and am having trouble identifying its origin and year of manufacturer.

It looks like a standard K98, 8mm, full length rifle with a military issue stock.
24" barrel, 2000m sights, and looks to be all original.

There are no factory marking on the top of the front receiver like every other mauser I have seen - and only 4441 and a small PW stamp on the left side of the receiver. The Bolt is also stamped 4441.
There is a PW also stamped in the left side of the buttstock, next to the rear sling mount.

I pulled the top handguard off, there is a 0 over a 33 stamp on the top of the barrel, and a Z and an X on the left side of the barrel.

I do not have a camera at the moment, which I am sure would greatly assist in identification...

what do I have?
 
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Tidewater_Kid

New member
Without pictures, it is very difficult to determine. My guess is that it is a Czech Vz-24. Only a guess since it could be almost anything.
 
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highpower3006

New member
The pictures are too dark to pick out any real detail. But if the bolt truly matches the receiver serial number, since it has a straight bolt handle I would go with a WAG that it might be a VZ24.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
The VZ-24 I have has a slightly different handguard (which is no big deal) but it has the serial number on the left side of the chamber and the BRNO name and vz-24 on the left side of the action between the chamber and the thumb slot.

IF yours is a VZ-24 it has been "sanitized" by having the markings removed. Possibly. The straight bolt handle is right for the VZ-24 and some other Mausers but not for a 98K.

I'm afraid I don't have any clue what your rifle actually is, only that its not what it ought to me marked.
 
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mikejonestkd

New member
Thank for the info, everything seems to point to a VZ-24.

The stock is rough but decent enough for the cost, the action is smooth and the barrel is decent. I look forward to enjoying it once i clean it up a bit.

I got it for a song, so I am not too concerned about collector value.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
I got it for a song, so I am not too concerned about collector value.
Click to expand...

Unless someone finds some documentation about an "unmarked" VZ (or what ever mauser it is) and that can be linked to your rifle, there's no collector value to speak of. Only the shooter value of a functional Mauser action military rifle.

Here's a possibility, but its only a wild guess, I heard that some of the Nazi rifles that wound up going to Israel were "scrubbed" to have the Nazi markings removed (which makes sense, really) and your rifle possibly might be from a batch of those.

Sometimes guns really travel! A few years back there was a P.08 Luger shown on the forum that had been made for the Dutch, (delivered before the German attack in 1940,) sent to the Dutch East Indies, captured by the Japanese in 41, and captured by the Americans from the Japanese in the Philippines in 44/45 then brought back to the US.

Your Mauser (or VZ) without any markings other than a few numbers could have a lot of different stories to tell but we can only guess.
 
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emcon5

New member
Pretty unlikely it is Israeli, they scrubbed swastikas, but not much else. They certainly wouldn't care if it had CZ on the rail, they bought new Mausers from CZ and they came marked. There would also be IDF property marks, and they were pretty much standardized on the Kar98K pattern when they were reworked and converted to 7.62.

If the bolt matches the action, then the stock looks strange. It looks like it has a cutout for a turned down bolt, which it probably would not have had originally. VZ24s came both ways, so it is possible the stock is original though.

The only completely unmarked Mauser I can think of was the post war Yugo M48"BO" but those had turned down bolts, and since they were M48 pattern were slightly shorter action than the standard Mauser98 and VZ24 length.

If you take it out of the stock be VERY careful with the handguard, some are held on with a spring clip on the barrel, and you need to pop that off with a screwdriver or something once the stock is removed, if you try and pull it off you will probably rip the spring clip screws out of the handguard.

Curious if there are any markings under the wood line.
 
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mikejonestkd

New member
I pulled the action out of the stock and there are no additional stamps or marks to identify it.

The front receiver ring has not been ground and refinished- the bluing perfectly matches the rest of the action and it looks factory original. same for the receiver- no grinding marks or evidence of a refinishing job.

All info I have gathered points to a VZ-24, which is good enough for me. Dies and brass landed, and I have loads prepped for the weekend range trip.
 
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mikejonestkd

New member
Range trip update- the rifle shot poorly.
I brought along 10 different loads - consisting of 150 and 170 gr Speer bullets and either varget or H4895 powder in different charge weights. All charges were starting at the low end of the data and working up in 1 gr increments.

I was hoping to at least get acquainted with the rifle and get lucky with at least one combo that would shoot acceptably.

The best group shot 4" at 50 yards.
Several others were shotgun patterns.

Might be time to slug the bore and see what I am really working with....
 
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emcon5

New member
Take a look at this thread over on Gunboards, it is simple stuff you can do to really improve the accuracy of a military Mauser.

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...re-accuracy-to-your-Russian-capture-98k/page2

It isn't exactly the same rifle, but all of the steps apply.

What were you using for a target? I made up a printable versions of the WW2 era German acceptance target for Kar98k, scaled to 50, 75, and 100 yards. It looks funny, but is the best target I have used for Mauser iron sights (You use a 6:00 hold). It is really easy to get a repeatable sight picture with Mauser sights.

k98_acceptance.jpg


You can find the download links and instructions here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1152019
 
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ernie8

New member
Your first problem is Speer 8mm bullets , the are really bad out of military 8mm rifles . Try the Hornady 150 or 170 , and do not load them at max , or too light depending on the data . The 150 at 2400 to 2600 fps and the 170 about 100 fps less . Next slug your bore and check the last couple of inches of rifling . If you rifle is a VZ-24 , they used a wide band rifling some with a groove dia as large as .328 .
 
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mikejonestkd

New member
Thanks for the tip about using Hornady bullets, time to place another order online...
Now, I gotta burn up a bunch of speer bullets, as no one near me loads for 8mm..
 
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emcon5

New member
and do not load them at max , or too light depending on the data . The 150 at 2400 to 2600 fps and the 170 about 100 fps less .
Click to expand...
Why so slow? The original 1905 ~150 gr S Patrone was almost 2900 FPS (through a ~29" barrel" and the 1933 195gr s.S. Patrone was just under 2500 FPS from a ~24" barrel, the same length as rifle he is shooting. The Romanian ~155 gr stuff from the 1970s averaged 2670 fps from a 24" Kar98K.

My handloads with 175 Sierra Gamekings are 2490 FPS with a middle of the range load of Varget, and it shoots great.
 
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