New loaded SA M1A stinks

Sevens

New member
A moderator needs to edit the thread subject/title to very clearly state "my handloads stink and I slagged a rifle due to my own ineptitude"

It is good & well that failure was admitted but the subject title remains. It's like a billboard by the expressway that is entirely false and the only "fix" is a note to call this number for an update on the subject matter.
 

Slamfire

New member
I find it funny how someone is so quick to damn a rifle before they even shoot proper ammo through it.

Unlike insects, birds and bees who are born knowing all that they need to know, how does a new shooter to find that gas guns are far more picky and particular about their ammunition than bolt rifles?

Well one place is here, of course. But I have been criticized in past threads because of all the information I put into my posts, most particularly the information that relates to primers.

Garand Load

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567185

Hardest Large rifle primers

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567572

CCI 34 VS 200 primers.


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567902

Most reloading manuals won't touch the subject, so new shooters have a dearth of useful information for reloading for these rifles. And then there there is an active dis information campaign from several posters on this subject. One particular poster, this guy continually offers the worst possible advice to shooters and I think it is because he wants to hurt people.

This post was on Culver's more than a decade ago, before they re hosted the site and lost all the old posts.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?3114-CCI-34-vs-WLR-in-30-06&p=21008#post21008

Sunray:

CCI #34's are a marketing gimmick for magnum primers. Magnum primers are about the powder used, not the rifle. Magnum primers are not needed for any .30-06 powder. Certainly not required for the M1 Rifle. Millions of rounds were reloaded for M1's(and every other battle rifle) long before CCI came up with their "milspec" primers.

H4895 will do, but you'll get more consistent accuracy with IMR4064 and regular large rifle primers.

"...has had, and will have, as many slamfires as the Garand..." Nonsense. The Rifle is no more prone to slamfires than any other semi-auto. In any case, slamfires are caused by improperly loaded ammo, not the rifle. Never seen nor heard of a single slamfire, in any M1(or any other battle rifle), in 30 plus years.

SKS -- worth it?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9816391#post9816391

February 23, 2015, 01:10 PM PM #43
Sunray

1). Not an issue. Slam fires are not caused by rifles. They're caused by improperly loaded ammo. Usually high primers.
2) An SKS is not and never has been a target rifle. They were made to be issued as stop gap semi-autos to illiterate conscripts, who could be taught to use 'em in as little time as possible. Trigger pull(and sights) meant nothing.
"...any chance getting more cheap surplus SKSs..." Not with King Obama in office. You likely wouldn't want a rifle from Vietnam or Cuba anyway.
"...poor man's M1 Garand..." Poor mans M1 Carbine.



Cee Zee
:

Not an issue. Slam fires are not caused by rifles. They're caused by improperly loaded ammo. Usually high primers.

Sorry friend but that is totally and completely wrong when talking an SKS. How many examples would you like of people who have been shooting them for decades saying what you just said is wrong? …

But just for the record I think I should include some quotes form people about the slam fire issues.

Start on this web page.

Then maybe watch this video.

Or this video.

And here's Murray's famous page on the subject.

And there's this web page which has a video.

Google lists 112,000 results on the subject. I think these people can't all be wrong. Besides I've seen this issue myself. I've seen bent firing pins and I've seen guns fired so many times the bolt got completely gunked up to the point I was surprised it would fire at all. But it did.

Friend you are giving out dangerous advice.
[/quote]




Canadian Gun Nutz finally figured out that Sunray was a psychopath out to hurt people and banned him:


Some things are not funny, you can have him back


http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...me-things-are-not-funny-you-can-have-him-back

09-12-2015

Cleftwynd


As long as Sunray isn't here, I am at least partially pleased. Too bad he can navigate the web and spread false and dangerous information on other sites though.

Originally Posted by laker415

He is dedicated at providing terrible advice. I wonder if he thinks he knows it all or is purposely providing poor information. He drops some bad info in a thread and never seems to return to read everyone ripping apart his stupidity.

It's what's known as seagull commenting- flys in, drops a bunch of crap that gets everybody riled up, then flys off to crap on somebody else
 
Last edited:

Kosh75287

New member
Makes you wonder if "Sunray" isn't an agent provocateur, sent by Schumer, HCI, Bloomberg, and all the other gun-grabbers just to mess up the works on websites like these.
 

AK103K

New member
I had my slamfire during a match with a DCM M1 back in the mid 80's. Ammo was DCM issued LC69.

My rifle looked a lot like the M1A in post #13 in Slamfires first link, but also had a big chunk of the stock blown out and the bolt was jammed into the receiver.

I have a nice "L" shaped scar in the palm of my right hand, and at the time, you could read a good part of the headstamp of the brass (in reverse) on my palm just below my thumb. I also gained a nice ringing in my right ear, that I still have today.

I was lucky, as I had had three or four "doubles" during the rapid fire stages, and I thought it was just me with a new trigger/rifle, and I must have been milking it. The "grenade" happened in the prone slow fire string, and the rifle wasnt in my shoulder when it cut loose. If it had been, they probably would have found that missing piece of receiver in my head. After the match when my buddy recovered my brass while I was at the hospital getting stitches, he found the remnants of those "doubles" amongst the brass. They had the necks blown out.

One thing I no longer do with the M1's is, let the bolt go forward with a round in the chamber, as we were always taught, and had done for years prior. I was doing that when the gun cut loose. I now use a SLED. With the M1A's/M14's, its not so much an issue, as they are usually fed from the mag, as they were designed to do. I would not single load the M1A's without a mag either.

I was always pretty careful with reloading for everything prior to that, but afterwards, I got a lot more serious with prepping/loading for the M1's/M1A's.

Even then, its still easy to slip up. Back during the last ammo shortage, when components were hard to come by, I ran out of CCI small rifle, and found a couple of thousand Winchester SR primers. Id never heard of any issues with the Winchesters, so I loaded up a batch of .223 for my one AR, and on the very first pull of the trigger, got a four round burst. It was also the first time out with a new suppressor, and I though it might be that. Took it off, and was still getting the "bursts". That was it for Winchester primers in my autos.


Makes you wonder if "Sunray" isn't an agent provocateur
From reading some of those replies, I was thinking it might be the same guy, under a couple of different names. ;)
 

Road_Clam

New member
This thread does NOT scare me ! (I have a SA M1A "Loaded" on order) . I hereby state, I WILL dissasemble , clean , lube , read the dam manual , give it some unfired huggy time, then take it to the range and have at it with correct ammo !

Just like my recent M1 Garrand , I had all kinds of concerning action issues trying to use a SLED , and after asking calm questions, doing some reverse internal action assessments, I figured out all on my own it was NOT the gun, it was NOT my handloads, it was MY incorrect method of novice Garrand action manipulation...
 

mehavey

New member
FWIW: When loading singly (M1) I release the bolt from the half-closed position. (M1A - always from the magazine)
SLAMFIRE: Your thoughts/experience when no sled available?
 

AK103K

New member
FWIW: When loading singly (M1) I release the bolt from the half-closed position.
If I were to do it without the SLED, Id seat the round fully in the chamber, ease the bolt to it, and push the op rod closed with the heel of my hand.
 

Slamfire

New member
FWIW: When loading singly (M1) I release the bolt from the half-closed position. (M1A - always from the magazine)

I agree 100% with this. I don't remember the Army manual, but it had a section on how to single load the Garand, and the Army must have had enough slamfires in the things, even after the firing pin had been lightened, that the guidance was to lower the bolt to about here, and then let go.






Incidentally, that was the first 100-9X I shot in small bore prone competition at 100 yards. Now I have a couple fo 100-10X's, just bragging. :p

Based on posts I have read, it is important to get your hand out of the way when the bolt goes into battery. More than one person has had the operating rod slice through their palm when a Garand discharged. My recollection is that I have read posts where the mechanism fired when someone bumped the operating rod closed. It is better and safer to lower the Garand bolt about half away and get the hand out of there as the bolt closes.

Primers are not 100% predictable. You should not trust primers fully as the things may go off. Yes, it is rare, but you don't want to be the one in 100 million who had one go off, either in battery, or out of battery, as the bolt closed.

I would never have thought these incidents could have happened, but they did:

Primer goes off in a Purse!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...ide-woman-purse-shoots-her-leg-232052308.html

By Eric Pfeiffer, Yahoo! News | The Sideshow – Tue, Jun 12, 2012

A Pennsylvania woman was shot in the leg while shopping at a local department store on Tuesday. But in a nearly unbelievable twist, no gun was involved. Apparently, the woman was carrying the bullet in her purse, when it mysteriously exploded.

"She did not have a gun in her purse or on her," Montoursville Deputy Police Chief Jason Bentley told the Williamsport Sun-Gazette. Bentley said the woman, whose name has not been released to the public, "was not aware" she was carrying two or three bullets inside her purse at the time of the accident.
The 56-year-old woman was taken to a local hospital and was eventually discharged. In fact, the woman initially declined medical treatment, only heading to the Williamsport Regional Medical Center after her son reportedly encouraged her to do so.

"Something must of hit the primer of one of the bullets," Bentley said. "The bullet stayed in the purse, but its casing put a hole in the purse and caused a minor leg wound."

Bullets exploding outside of a gun are a rare occurrence but are not entirely unprecedented. In March, a bullet being used as evidence in a court case exploded in a bag and shot 20 feet across a courtroom. No one was hurt in the incident. It was surmised that the bullet exploded after its tip bounced against another bullet tip in the same evidence bag, according to the Telegram & Gazette.

Mil spec primers are on the average, less sensitive, but primers vary in sensitivity by the lot. They vary considerably. So while the average mil spec primer is less sensitive, that does not mean there is not some super sensitive primer in the batch. You should not fully trust them. This is an example. This shooter used CCI #34's, wrote that he individually examined each primer to verify that they were below the case head, but the rifle slamfired out of battery when he put a round in the chamber and dropped the bolt. Later he wrote the cases had been improperly sized.








Just two weeks ago I was sizing LC 308 brass I had fired in my M1a. I took the ole thunderstick to a local 100 yard match. The weather was 65 F, couldn't stay home when the weather in Dec is 65 F. I was sizing my brass and as I checked the first couple out of the die, I noticed the shoulder was not being set back. It turned out the turret screw on my Redding T-7 had backed out a turn or two, raising the turret up. So things like this happen, being careful and using gages revealed that something anomalous had happened. Maybe the guy whose M1a slamfired out of battery had the sizing die unscrew a turn or two and did not notice. You have to pay attention to these things when loading for these gas guns. At best, all you get is a mal function, at worst, the receiver heel comes off in your fore head.

It is my opinion that these extra considerations are not written about in the popular print press is due to several factors. The first, and primary, is that gun writers are shills for the industry. They don't want to scare anyone away from any manufacturer's product. So how do you warn of a inherent design flaw in Garand actions without scaring everyone? And, how do they warn reloaders about primer sensitivity compatibility without "un friending" the brands that are most sensitive. Truth has both winners and losers, but in their game, it has to be "win-win".

Another reason is that gunwriters are no longer competitive shooters. At least one is, he shoots BPCR. Anyone shooting NRA highpower long enough will hear, if not see slamfires and learn in time about the peculiarities about reloading for these rifles. There was a time when gunwriters regularly went to Camp Perry and shot in the matches, but now, these guys are primarily desk jockies, ex Cops, or game hunters.
 

Sevens

New member
Slamfire, I have seen your work on this subject for a couple of years now and have even directed others to your sage advice. It is far more than admirable that you spend the time and energy that you have & continue to do to educate on the subject.

It does make me take note of your love & passion for the platform when they have such an inherent and obvious, ummm... "design feature." ;)

It was a number of years ago that I was clued in to the firing pin design of the AR platform and to this day it still amazes me that NORMAL chambering of a round, stripped from a magazine results in a slight ding that is very visible on the primer if you withdraw that cartridge, unfired, from the chamber and inspect. And while I know it's nearly sacrilege to bring THAT up around hardcore AR junkies... I still find it utterly appalling to this very day.

It seems akin to using a blowtorch to illuminate the neck of your gas tank filler tube to get a good visual on the level of gasoline you might have in your tank. :eek: The normal design ensures that the firing pin will fly forward and bounce off the primer on every chambered round. "Not hard, tho."
:confused:
 

Slamfire

New member
Slamfire, I have seen your work on this subject for a couple of years now and have even directed others to your sage advice. It is far more than admirable that you spend the time and energy that you have & continue to do to educate on the subject.

It does make me take note of your love & passion for the platform when they have such an inherent and obvious, ummm... "design feature."

Thanks for the nice words. I still love the M1a and the Garand, though the M1a is my favorite of the two. I started NRA Competition when the big dogs won matches with the 308 Win and the M1a/M14. I was shooting at Camp Perry the last year the Marines used the M14, and I was saddened when the M14 rifle decal on the Marine Corp Armorer's trailer was painted over and finally, disappeared. I suppose the same happened with the M1903 and the Garand. I earned my Distinguished Rifleman badge with an M1a, my last leg, I won a Regional Gold and my final leg points.

My reloading practices are to firstly to create the safest ammunition I can, and secondly, create the most function reliable ammunition I can. If I do these things correctly, and follow certain loading procedures, I have minimized the risk of an inadvertent discharge as much as I possibly can. The rest is chance. I can live with the odds, and that's OK.

The AR15 has displaced the M1a on the firing line, it can be built into a superbly accurate rifle, one that requires very little gun smithing once set up, even so, I sort of think of the thing as a "Poodle Gun". If you shoot enough NRA or CMP service rifle competition, someone you shoot with will have seen an AR15 slamfire or had one. As long as the muzzle is pointed down range, nothing much happens. The AR15 positively holds the firing pin back until cam down, so AR15 firing pin initiated slamfires are going to be in battery. However, the Garand mechanism, that mechanism does not have a positive firing pin block, so you have to pay more attention to reloading practices to create
 
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