New loaded SA M1A stinks

Fox84

New member
Wouldn't cycle after three rounds. It would not eject a spent round. Then it became a single shot when I closed the bolt on the loaded mag. Then it would misfire and I would manually eject a loaded round with barely a nick on the primer. Rounds fired about 15.

Any help appreciated before shipping to SA.

I bought this for reliability in 308, -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-
 

geetarman

New member
Fox84,

I am sorry to hear of your issues with the rifle. I have the same rifle and have never had an issue with it. A couple of questions. . .

Did you buy the rifle new?

Did you take it out of the stock before you shot it?

Did you do ANYTHING like unscrew the piston assembly for the gas piston?

Were you shooting factory rounds or reloads?

The ding marks on the primers is normal.

New rifles often have some issues with magazine clearance and difficulty seating them. This is true if you have aftermarket magazines from places that CLAIM to produce the same as supplied from the manufacturer.

Did you have ANY problems seating the magazines? Sometimes they will fool you into thinking they are fully seated when they are not. That can really mess up your day. When you rock the magazine into place, you should have no doubt when the magazine is fully seated. You should not be able to push it forward at all UNLESS you depress the release.

When you loaded the magazines did you tap the magazines to make sure the rounds were seated to the rear of the magazine? This seems to help some slight feeding issues. The design of the mag allows you to insert rounds that have very little clearance between the nose of the bullet and the forward edge of the magazine.

What you are describing sounds a lot like a magazine problem.

HTH
 
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Fox84

New member
Same issues with factory and aftermarket mags. New SA rifle. I'll check for loose gas plug.

I didn't disassemble a new rifle before shooting. I greased action and snaked bore.

For some reason I thought a battle rifle would fire out of the box.
My DPMS LR308 did.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
Forgive the third degree, but in order to figure out what might be happening, we need as much info as possible.

DO you have experience with the M1A /M14 rifles? Do you have the manual(s)?

Did you properly clean and lubricate the new rifle?
(guns are generally shipped with preservative oils and greases, not the proper lubrication for operation)

Is it assembled correctly?

Is the spindle valve in the correct position?

What ammunition was used?

The M1A has a true "floating" firing pin, which bounces off the primer when the action shuts, normal and perfectly fine for milspec ammo. USUALLY fine with most commercial ammo, BUT certain (civilian) primers are sensitive enough that an accidental discharge can happen. IF you are using ammo other than what is recommended, there is increased risk.

Assuming no physical damage, all parts move freely through their intended range, AND the ammo is in spec for the gun, failure to cycle is a gas system issue.

Failure to FIRE is something else.

Rounds are extracting from the chamber, so its not the extractor. When you say fail to eject, you mean when it fired? rounds eject when you operate the bolt by hand, right?

There are a lot of possible things going on. One thing needed to know is what ammo you used. There is crap 7.62NATO. and there is "good" ammo not well suited for the M1A as well.

Simplest things first, change ammo, see what the gun does with KNOWN in spec ammo. Then, we start to narrow down what might be going wrong with the rifle.

I don't know all the details of Springfield's current models, isn't a "loaded" model a target gun?? Target guns tend to be very tight and sometimes need a bit of "break in" before they run well.

The more specific information you can give us, the more we can help.
 

Fox84

New member
The ammo were my reloads. I will buy factory and try again.

My reloads slide into the chamber easy.

I can't believe how sloppy the bolt moves thru the receiver. Nothing like my Garand.
 

Targa

New member
That sucks, I understand the frustration but it'll get taken care of. I assume you plan on breaking the rifle down, thoroughly cleaning it and giving it another go?
 

mehavey

New member
I STRONGLY recommend you [the OP] put some fresh milsurp/commercial ammunition through it before deciding it's the rifle.
I can think of a half dozen things that reloads might be bringing to the party, ... all bad. ;)
 

WC145

New member
Sorry to hear your having trouble. I bought a new Loaded this past spring and haven't had any issues, have only used factory ammo.

Try factory ammo and see what happens, If you're still having trouble call Springfield, they've got some of the best customer service in the business. I believe they'll pay shipping both ways for warranty issues, they did with my Loaded 1911. They build a lot of rifles, occasionally stuff happens, if there is a problem give them a chance to make good on it, I'm sure they'll do everything they can to make sure that you're happy.
 

44 AMP

Staff
For the M1A /M14 rifles, grease (bolt roller) is the proper lube.

My reloads slide into the chamber easy.
This is only PART of what needs to happen.

Being a gas operated semi auto, the M1A needs not only ammo in the right pressure range, it needs ammo in the right pressure curve.

While total peak pressure might be within spec, in order for the action to cycle properly, the pressure has to meet, and not exceed a certain amount at a certain time in the cycle.

Your handloads could be fine for overall pressure, but completely wrong for pressure curve.
 

smee78

New member
+1 "Did you properly clean and lubricate the new rifle?
(guns are generally shipped with preservative oils and greases, not the proper lubrication for operation)"

Your gun sounds gummed up with shipping grease. I would perform a good cleaning and get some Federal American Eagle Ammunition 7.62x51mm NATO 168 Grain Open Tip Match ammo to try.
 

Slamfire

New member
The ammo were my reloads. I will buy factory and try again.

My reloads slide into the chamber easy.

I can't believe how sloppy the bolt moves thru the receiver. Nothing like my Garand.

You have to be far more particular about reloading for gas guns than for bolt action rifles. You can get away with sloppy, over sized, slow burning powders in bolt rifles, but the same ammunition will cause malfunctions in a M1a. My advice for reloading for M1a’s is to

1. Full length resize in a small base die

2. Trim cases

3. Clean primer pockets, ream to depth

4. Prime all cases by hand, verify that all primers are below the case head, and use the least sensitive primers you can find. I recommend CCI #34's or tula mil spec.

5. Use IMR4895/AA2495/H4895 powders.

6. Seat the bullets to magazine depth, no longer than 2.8 for the 308, shorter is fine.

It is important to small base size cases used in these rifles and to set up the dies with a case gage and size to gage minimum. (Assuming you don’t know the headspace of your chamber, if you do, always be 0.002 to 0.003” less) You want the bolt to close without resistance. This will reduce the risk of an out of battery slamfire. I am of the opinion that the reason you saw light dimples on your primers is because your cases are too long for the chamber. The bolt was not completely closed and the hammer energy was spent in crushing the cartridge to the chamber. This problem can be avoided by using case gages.


ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg


There are some who say small base dies are not needed in these rifles, the Gunwriter Mike Venturino has been one. For years he has been saying in print that only standard sizing dies are need. But in the July 2012 issue of Guns Magazine, he is testing an M1a and a AR10 and his reloads are too tight. I find it humorous to read of him beating the bolts open with scrap lumber. Ha, Ha.

If you attempt to small base size with a spray on lube you will stick the case in the die. I recommend RCBS water soluble or Imperial Sizing wax. These are excellent lubes.


For these rifles it is safety critical to ensure that all primers are below the case head. Reaming primer pockets to depth is a good idea. Seat the primers by hand, and verify that all of the primers are below the case head. There is a chance that a cocked primer, with the anvil firmly seated on something, will cause a primer initiated slamfire. One poster swaged his primer pockets, which shaved brass donuts into the pocket. He left the donuts in the pocket, which resulted in high primers, and his AR10 slamfired in battery. Clean those pockets! A high primer can cause a slamfire but only if the anvil is firmly seated. High primers are one of the most common cause of misfires because the primer won't fire unless the anvil is seated and is pushed up into the primer cake. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/ However, given a shallow pocket it is theoretically possible that high primers could slamfire, given debris in the pocket, you can get a slamfire.

Any service rifle that has a free floating firing pin can slamfire at any time if improper ammunition is used. The use of commercial factory ammunition or reloads that use soft or more sensitive primers often create slamfires.

Because SKS’s slamfire so often, there are lots of slamfire reports with SKS’s, Murray’s has a firing pin modification to reduce the chance of slamfires. Also, the SKS boards has this excellent “A primer on primers”

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0



Springfield Armory M1A Manual, page 4

http://www.springfield-armory.com/do...=M1AManual.pdf.

Ammunition
The M1A is designed and built to specifications to shoot standard factory military 7.62 NATO ammunition. The specifications for standard military ammunition include harder primers to withstand the slight indentation from the firing pin when the bolt chambers a cartridge. This slight indentation is normal. The use of civilian ammunition with more sensitive primers or hand loads with commercial primers and/or improperly seated primers increase the risk of primer detonation when the bolt slams forward. This unexpected "slam fire" can occur even if the trigger is not being pulled and if the safety is on. Use of military specification ammunition will help avoid this.

Every shooter should use extreme caution when loading this or any other firearm. See page 17 for instructions on proper loading to help avoid a "slam fire". Also see enclosed article on “Slam Fire” written by Wayne Faatz




Federal primers are the most sensitive primer on the market and the most "slamfiring" primer in Garands/M1a's. I have lots of web accounts of slamfires with Federal primers. Don’t use them. I recommend CCI #34's and Tula7.62 primers as they considered "Mil Spec" primers. Which means they are less sensitive than commercial primers, federal being the most sensitive commercial primer on the market

When firing single shot, load from the magazine. Do not put a round in the chamber and drop the bolt. Lots of inbattery slamfires, and a few out of battery, have happened because of this. You want to slow the bolt down. When rounds feed from the magazine the friction between cartridges slows the bolt a bit.
 
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