New cartridge that actually IS a winner (IMHO)

[taylorce1]

I've always said it was smart of Winchester to bring out the 6.8 Western as a new SAAMI cartridge. Just updating the .270 WSM would have been a mistake. If the cartridge will be a success or not is yet to be determined.

We have a heavy market saturation of cartridges for hunting and target shooting. There are a lot of cartridges that have cemented a place for the foreseeable future as industry staples. So it's hard for any new cartridge to take off, no matter how good it is on paper.

Any new cartridge like the 6.8 Western is going to try to gain a foothold against cartridges like the .270 W/WSM, 7mm RM, .280 AI, .308, .30-06, and .300 WM/WSM. Not to mention it has competition with new cartridges in the same space namely the 6.5, 7mm, and .300 PRC. Then you have cartridges that should have been more popular that failed almost immediately like the entire line up of Remington short action ultra magnums and the 7mm WSM. All very good cartridges that never caught on.

 

[Ricklin]

But ya gotta have the long range weasel gun

The variety of calibers available take me right to a Foxworthy routine. My recent find at the orphanage has me appreciating the grand old 30.06. Please, i can't imagine a more flexible caliber, whether you choose to handload, or not. The grand old 30.06 covers varmints to moose what other cartridge supports 110 grains to 220 grain loadings? While I love it's twin in .270, the .06 is growing on me.

 

[MarkCO]

The variety of calibers available take me right to a Foxworthy routine. My recent find at the orphanage has me appreciating the grand old 30.06. Please, i can't imagine a more flexible caliber, whether you choose to handload, or not. The grand old 30.06 covers varmints to moose what other cartridge supports 110 grains to 220 grain loadings? While I love it's twin in .270, the .06 is growing on me.

It is still the cartridge I recommend to new hunters, above all others. I handed my R700 .30-06 down to my oldest son, and he uses it for Elk. My youngest got my Dad's .270Win R700. But I agree, the .30-06 is still the best all-around IMHO. It is interesting that there are a bunch of new cartridges that are basically modifications of the 27 caliber and down, with steeper shoulders, a little shorter bodies and then put in faster twist bodies, and then what I call the modern magnums, 7mm and up with velocities over 3000 fps.

But it's interesting that no-one has really tried to "better" the .308 and .30-06 with an AI profile and a faster twist barrel specified.

 

[natman]

Shortening the body in relation to the bullet placement within the magazine. You keep the same OAL, but allow the base of the bullet to be at, or forward of the neck shoulder junction, which is important for accuracy.

Good, makes sense so far. How does having the base at or forward or the neck improve accuracy?

 

[MarkCO]

Bullet bearing seated past the neck/shoulder junction does a few things. First, it contributes to higher ES, due to tension variance. The shoulder moves forward, a little and the pressure has more than one place to go, it will go there. Gaping between the shank and the shoulder neck is the path of least resistance and you give it more time to work in this area. The more perfect your cases are in uniformity, the less the effect. But I've tested this, even with new cases, sorted, and the ES starts to climb the further the bullet goes past the neck/shoulder junction. Second, after a few firings the shoulder material migrates forward into the neck creating the "donut". It is a thickened area at the base of the neck that increases pressure a little and results in uneven neck tension. Thus higher SD and ES and less accurate. Older cartridges, like the 300WM tend to do this more than the newer ones, like the 300PRC.

 

[stagpanther]

Bullet bearing seated past the neck/shoulder junction does a few things. First, it contributes to higher ES, due to tension variance. The shoulder moves forward, a little and the pressure has more than one place to go, it will go there. Gaping between the shank and the shoulder neck is the path of least resistance and you give it more time to work in this area. The more perfect your cases are in uniformity, the less the effect. But I've tested this, even with new cases, sorted, and the ES starts to climb the further the bullet goes past the neck/shoulder junction. Second, after a few firings the shoulder material migrates forward into the neck creating the "donut". It is a thickened area at the base of the neck that increases pressure a little and results in uneven neck tension. Thus higher SD and ES and less accurate. Older cartridges, like the 300WM tend to do this more than the newer ones, like the 300PRC.

I just watched an episode of the ultimate reloader comparing the 7mm PRC to the old 7mm rem mag (I shot a Forbes rifle chambered in the venerable 7mm rm a couple weeks ago and was immensely impressed with it) and the issues you mentioned are directly related to the new PRC--and to some degree the WSM cartridges as well. On paper--and in practice--the PRC holds a small but significant advantage over the rem mag as the ranges get longer. I think the newer, hotter cartridges came about more as an evolutionary adaptation to accommodate the newer, higher BC bullets. In addition to the advantages of driving bigger, sleeker bullets faster the new cases are simpler, beltless and can operate at higher pressures.

In the video, a compelling case is made for the superiority of the PRC, but I often watch these things with a bit of suspicion that we're not really getting the whole story; as the saying goes, there's no such thing as a free lunch. I don't have any the chamberings used in the video--but I do have some traditional belted mag chamberings and a couple of PRC and WSM chambered rifles. This is just conjecture on my part and is based on nothing more than my personal experience--but the WSM and PRC cartridges require "trickier" balancing of charges to the bullets for optimal results, in addition to careful monitoring of brass flow in cases between firings. It seems to me that the throat and bores on my WSM and PRC chambered rifles are burning out noticeably faster than other my other belted mag rifles, but I don't have a true apples to apples basis for comparisons. I haven't shot a 7mm PRC, but I suspect there is a noticeable felt recoil difference between it and the 7mm rm.

 

[MarkCO]

Yes, the 7mm PRC is stout in recoil. I was able to shoot one in the same model I have also shot a 7mm Mag in, and it was a bit sharper, and more, to me. The PRC family does, as you mentioned really shine for the reloader (as compared to the WSMs and belted magnums) in the case life and barrel life areas. If you shoot factory ammo, the PRC is going to be easier to find "good" ammo for your rifle than the WSMs and more so the belted magnums for those reasons you mentioned.

The 6.5CM is also a little better than the .260Rem, but less so. These "new" cartridge designs really see the benefit in the magnum class as compared to those that are under, say 2900 fps or so. The 6.5CM, .243Win are just so easy to get a good load if you follow good reloading practices. The 300WM, for me, was the most challenging to get to the same level of precision.

 

[jackstrawIII]

I don't have one but am hoping it sticks around because I like what I see on paper.

Agreed. It’s a slightly better version of the 270 WSM that (I hope) will receive more long term support. The WSM cartridges were (and are) excellent. It’s sad to see them die, but cartridges like the 6.5 PRC and 6.8 Western are basically the same idea. Waiting for a 7mm or 30 cal version to come out soon, a newer 7mm or 300 WSM.

 

[taylorce1]

With the 7mm and .300 PRC you won't see a SA version soon. Eric Cortina shoots F-Class with a 7mm PRCW (PRC Wheeler) which is the 6.5 PRC necked up with a shoulder change.

 

[stagpanther]

There is a difference between the the 6.5 and 300 PRC cases (besides neck diameter)--I'm guessing his 7mm PRCW is kinda like what the 6.8 western is to the 270 WSM--shoulder knocked back a bit to accommodate big long heavy 284 bullets (and perhaps a shoulder angle change)?

 

[taylorce1]

There is a difference between the the 6.5 and 300 PRC cases (besides neck diameter)

I understand that, my point is I don't think Hornady is trying to duplicate WSM or SAUM performance by building a short action 7mm and .30 cal.

 

[stagpanther]

There are a lot of "long action in short action drag" cartridges out there, especially as newer bullets get longer. When I built my 25 PRC I went straight to a magnum-head LA action. I've often thought that this contrivance was to double the potential market by trying to get the 2.8" AR market covered as well.

 

[jackstrawIII]

I don't think Hornady is trying to duplicate WSM or SAUM performance by building a short action 7mm and .30 cal.

I don't think they are at the moment either, but I absolutely think they (or someone else) will before too long. Especially a short action 7mm mag to replace the almost dead 7mm WSM.