Never show your cards and don't bluff...

[scottaschultz]

Don't get me wrong, I agree 110% that you want the element of surprise on your side and not theirs. OK, maybe I did read too much into the original post, but it just seemed that that was more emphasis being placed on what happens after the guys break in and not so much on keeping them out in the first place.

As far as not knowing you have a firearm until that critical moment, I believe there are basically 2 things that an intruder does not want to hear:
1) Dogs barking - we have 5
2) A shotgun being pumped - I want the intruder to be damed well aware that I am armed!

Scott

 

[Enoy21]

While I agree with Carry Conceal gun for various reasons on your person....


I see no reason to hide the alarm stickers , let them know you are training.

If they are determined enough and intelligent enough to form a plan ( meaning staking your house , watching your patterns , learning more about you ) to get around the alarm , your training , knowing you are armed and dangerous ... then they are going to find a way to do it. And/or may get lucky even if you have that extra surprise for them.

On the other hand ... Letting them know in advance how well prepared you are , may deter them from even TRYING to do it.

I guess it all depends on just how smart/dedicated and Mission impossible determined these guys are.

 

[5whiskey]

I understand Scott, I could've worded things different. I'm not really focused on a break in per say, just any confrontation be it at home, in the street, at a store, or wherever else it may occur. The security system sign debate is really just a reference to the attitude to have. That attitude is not to have a desire to defend myself, it's just to take away any knowledge someone desiring to hurt me or mine may have about how well prepared I am for them. I want to appear to be as clueless of a shmuck as I can pull off. Think about it, if you were the general of an army and had orders to defend x territory would you really want to advertise the position and capabilities of every unit under your command? You're not on the offense. You don't seek to destroy. You are charged only with defense. The less any invading army knows about your capabilities, the better.

 

[Enoy21]

As for the signs... I've been in the security alarm industry before. Many houses are not adequately protected by the "free promotion" systems pushed on them by salesmen. Security systems CAN be a very powerful tool, but it can also be just a mild annoyance to anyone with knowledge of how they work unless the homeowner is REALLY familiar with how to make that system work best for them. With that being said, some of those systems have as much as 30 second entry delays. That gives anyone determined to get in 30 seconds to find the main control panel (obviously not at my house, but there is still an entry delay and someone with the know-how could keep the siren blaring down to a minimum of 10 or 15 seconds). If he can find it, then it's game over for security system. Not to mention signs invite them to cut the phone line before they break in, etc. Now take same person, they have no knowledge that you have security system. They kick the door in, keypad goes off, then 5 seconds later siren goes off. They weren't counting on that, and they get an "Oh, ****" moment, hopefully causing them to run off. Like I said, signs may be good to deter the amatuers... but it tells the pros to be prepared. That's a long way from leaving the door open and inviting them in.

Again , if these guys are so determined and dedicated .... This will work for you ONCE.


Once they have attempted to break in , get spooked by the surprise and run off ... they will be back and now the element of surprise is gone. You are right back to the point of " they know I have an alarm now, what it sounds like , how it reacts etc....


Unless you have some security camera's that can tape them doing it , then to the police it's just "attempted burglary" in which case it never happened and they can't catch the guys who did it ... leaving them out there for a second chance.



Also keep in mind your response to the freebee alarm systems ... If they make plans to account for the basic setups or false front stickers ... then they are going to be surprised anyway ... At the same time it will keep OTHER ameuters at bay.

 

[5whiskey]

but it just seemed that that was more emphasis being placed on what happens after the guys break in and not so much on keeping them out in the first place.

That's another assumption and you don't really know my reason for having things. The security system is primarily for when I'm NOT at home. Don't get me wrong, it's armed when I am at home. I'm not home much, and I don't really like the idea of anyone getting hold of my guns. I don't have the money for a full out gun safe. I have a lock box bolted down but it could be gotten into with enough time.

Thus enters the security system. The purpose of that is to severely limit the amount of time that anyone can have in the house. If you know enough about how alarms work, you will realize that they are FAR from full-proof... even a nicer system. The greatest tactical advantage to an alarm is to keep perps from knowing you have it. Trust me, I've installed them. The MCP is usually in a closet in a central location. Given that knowledge, with a 15 second delay on a keypad, anyone who knows an alarm is there can effectively circumvent it pretty easily. First they cut phone/cable lines. Then just kick in the door and you have on average 15 seconds to find the control panel and rip it off the wall before a siren goes off. Even if the siren is activated for 5 or 10 seconds, many neighbors would assume it's a false alarm. I've seen this happen on several occasions.

Now, if they don't know it's there they just kick in the door. All of a sudden this thing on the wall is beeping at them. There's that 2 or 3 seconds of "oh crap", and then they have to come up with a plan to circumvent the system AFTER IT'S ALREADY BEEN ACTIVATED. Before they get very far there's a siren going off. "Oh crap, what to do"... There's a much greater chance of them just running away. This is coming from someone with professional experience with security systems. Signs are good deterance against crack rock burglers. If someone has a personal vendetta, there's a good chance they'll enact that vendetta with or without the sign. The sign just gives them an opportunity to come at you with a plan.

 

[scottaschultz]

You're right, I don't have all the details. I don't want them and I certainly don't need them. All I know is that you seem to be walking proof of the old saying, "No good deed goes unpunished!"

God speed.

Scott

 

[5whiskey]

Once they have attempted to break in , get spooked by the surprise and run off ... they will be back and now the element of surprise is gone. You are right back to the point of " they know I have an alarm now, what it sounds like , how it reacts etc....

And if they did attempt a B&E and my plan worked as anticipated, I WOULD invest in cameras the very next day to catch them on film next time. I couldn't really afford it, but it would be there... along with a newly adopted boxer.

Bear in mind I'm not really expecting this to happen, but I'm prepared. I'm not sure they would escalate things to the point of breaking in if they ever find out where I live. I'm not going out to get a dog and put in a camera system right now. I already have a very capable alarm, but even the most capable of one is more effective when it's presence isn't advertised. If they do decide to play that game, then it's money I'm going to have to spend to get big boxer/cctv system. I reiterate that all of this is primarily for when I'm not at home. I REALLY don't think they would invade home for the purpose of killing, but I do think they might break in to steal and get even. Don't construe my thought process to be that of "I'm baiting these boys in so I can legally create a situation to defend myself and cause them pain and grief". That's not what I want at all, but I get the impression that some of you believe that's what is going on.

And for the deterring the amatuers part... I'll replace doors all day long before I replace my guns. If a chump kicks the door every year, gets surprised and runs off, then that's better than a pro coming up with a plan to get what I have regardless. And no, it's not that I choose not to have signs because I'm praying I get the opportunity to shoot someone

 

[onthejon55]

This scares the hell out of me! Most of us here (I hope) keep firearms in our homes praying (or hoping if praying isn't your thing) that we will never have to use them. You, on the other hand, sound like the kind of person that can't wait to use them.

Scott

People like this do not scare me and shouldnt scare anyone else. If you are worried about getting shot then stay off his property and do not try to fight him.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Wheeler,
Take it one step further.
The choice of firing has been made when you draw.
It will not be changed.
It's draw and fire. No thought is involved anymore.

AFS

 

[5whiskey]

One more thing... thanks for the responses fellows. I appreciate it. Twellons, I appreciate your side and view on these matter. As always, there are always two sides to a matter... you see a sign as a good way to avoid a possible confrontation all-together. I certainly think that's rational. I personally think that a sign, at least in my situation, may as well say "be sure to cut the phone/cable line and have a plan to disable the sirens BEFORE you kick the door in". That's valid as well. You did bring up an excellent point that I hadn't completely thought through. If they do manage to attempt a B&E once, I will have to step up the game because they'll know what I have.

I don't mind input, even if it contradicts my own thoughts, as long as no one tries to insinuate that I'm seeking out a conflict. I didn't think my wording would lead to that impression, but different people take things differently. Long story short, thanks for the input.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Take it one step further.
The choice of firing has been made when you draw.
It will not be changed.
It's draw and fire. No thought is involved anymore.

That is not good advice. There are many instances/scenarios wherein you may draw your gun and not fire. It is not only not illegal, it is specifically cited as justified in some laws and should be obvious from a common sense standpoint in certain situations.

 

[Carne Frio]

If you can, file a stalking charge and get a restraining order.
That way, it will be easier to prove malice on their part,
should you have to pull a trigger.

 

[5whiskey]

If you can, file a stalking charge and get a restraining order.
That way, it will be easier to prove malice on their part,
should you have to pull a trigger.

A step ahead of ya there bud . Appreciate the insight, but I already have court dates

 

[Enoy21]

Wheeler , no problems my friend , I also see your side of it as well and again think alot will depend on weather this is your average , street punks that are wanting retaliation but not too brite or determined , or someone with a higher level of experience that knows what to do and how to do it.


I did learn alot from your posts about how to disable an alarm and some of the dangerous of having keypads in near by areas that they can easily destroy ( kill the alarm ).

 

[5whiskey]

hey, no worries wellons. No worries man. If anyone has any alarm questions I happily take PMs. I haven't been in the business for about 7 years now, but not too much has changed except the advent of internet monitoring. In that case you still have to have internet connection via cable/phone line so that still disables the alarms' monitoring.

Oh, and the keypad is safe. It can be smashed all they want to and the alarm is still operable (on all systems except ademco lynksis). It's the main control panel that is the real biggie. If you DO have an alarm, make sure you have a short delay. It also helps to put a good lock on the closet door that holds the main control panel, and to put alarm contacts on the crawl space door. Oh... didn't mean to get started again

 

[Senator Vitaman]

but they know a place that I frequent

Don't frequent that place. They could see your car and follow you.

 

[txbirddog]

I'm pretty sure these folks are armed, but I don't think they would use it.

5whiskey, NEVER, EVER UNDERESTIMATE YOUR OPPONENT!!!!

If there is more than one of them, they could goad one into doing what you "don't think they would use".

 

[Kyo]

yea, peer pressure to prove "your a man" makes idiots do stupid things beyond their own idiotic scope.

 

[Dallas Jack]

If a pro tries to break in he most likely cut the phone line sign or not. If you went to the trouble of hardening the alarm system why not do the same for the phone line. Also half a dozen dummy security cameras will go a long way to avoiding a break in whether it's a pro or amateur. The dummy cameras don't cost alot just be sure and get some that have a battery operated red LED on it and add a small piece of wire going into the attic for that little touch of realism. I don't know about your alarm but mine has a setting (instant) to set it off as soon as the contact is broken. This leaves no time for anything.

Do not under estimate anyones ability to find out where you live or just catch you making a stop on the way home. If you think they are serious with the threat your only options are legal fileings. You can not legally be proactive to circumvent the threat. You have to wait for them to make a move. Good luck.
Dallas Jack

 

[racejmac]

I learned a lesson a long time ago...

I learn more by watching and listening... The sound of my own voice affords me nothing.