need help understanding hang fire rounds.

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TheDeej

New member
I would like to ask the community if you all have ever experienced a hang fire round. ill give you the basics of my reasoning.
I was at the range today with my brother with my springfield loaded with a new kimber conversion kit. We shot a good bit and I was shooting the converted Springfield at the time. I was trying to count my rounds since the slide doesn't lock back. I went through a magazine when the gun went click and I dropped the mag. I walked back to the shooting table where brother was standing. I laid the gun on the table, hammer forward and no finger near the trigger. I will be honest, I "thought" the gun was cold. I laid it on the table, then the gun went off. After the fact I retraced the scene to the best of my ability. I had a range bag on the the table. the bullet went into the side of the of the bag, bounced off a full coke can in the bag, then hit the zipper of the bag and turned almost a 70 degree angle & then entered my brothers arm. the bullet stopped at the very edge of his elbow.

please, I know I did something extremely wrong pointing the gun anywhere other than down range. I have been dealing with the vision of actually killing him since this happened. he is ok for the best of words. he was let out of the er, the bullet is still in, and they expect it to not bother him after the pain subsided and he is on a large dose of antibiotics.

Can anyone explain a hang fire round. what happens, and how it happens.

thank you for any help you can offer me. I.apologize for the abrupt question and hope you understand I'm not looking to know what I did wrong, which I do already believe me. I don't honestly know if I will ever go to the range again, and at the very least will never use the kimber conversion kit again, nor will I use bulk ammo packs.
thank you.
 
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sakata8242

New member
I've never had a hang fire, but I've had plenty of misfires with bulk pack .22lr ammo.

A hangfire is a delay in the ignition of the round, either due to the primer (or primer compound in the case of a rimfire round) or the powder failing to immediately ignite and burn. The key point is that you can't tell if it's a misfire or a hang fire right off the bat. That's why it's important to wait before opening the action to clear the round. An out of battery ignition of a rimfire round is one thing, but a centerfire cartridge going off out of battery could really ruin your day.

That's the gist of it; I'm sure someone with more expertise can explain all the finer points in greater detail.

As you now know all too well, this is one reason why if the gun goes click, you should wait 10 or 15 seconds (some say longer) with the gun pointed downrange before you open the action. Obviously this wouldn't apply in a defensive situation, but at the range it's an appropriate response.
 
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darkgael

New member
Badics

I went through a magazine when the gun went click and I dropped the mag. I walked back to the shooting table where brother...
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Right there.....you did not make the gun safe. The slide should be back otherwise the gun is not safe. If it will not lock back after the last shot, you must get into the habit of locking it back manually. You want to be able to see into the empty chamber.
I am happy for your good luck - that the damage was not worse than it is. Hopefully, your brother will recover fully. A prayer for that.
Pete
 
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ronz

New member
Had a hang fire about a month ago at least 5 seconds after I pulled the trigger was about to eject it when it went off
Scared the crap out of me when it went off and had to explain a baffle hit to the president of the club
He told me that during some competitions he shoots there required to wait 2 minutes and after I thought about it I think is what they taught us in basic if I remember correctly ( was a long time ago)
And even though I usually don’t even wait the 5 sec I did this time to recock and fire or eject (was trying out a new gun to see if it would be accurate enough for a snubbie league in the fall)
Especially if I’m using surplus figured if it don’t happen within a sec or two nothing will
The 2 min rule don’t seem to be over cautious anymore
 
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Rodger_p

New member
I've experienced a few. The longest delay was on some WWII 9mm surplus that my cousin and I were shooting. That one was about a 2 second delay.

I also had a batch of 303 British from the early sixties that was loaded with Cordite. About every fifth or sixth round would go: Click, pause, bang.


Rodger
 
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Pahoo

New member
God was looking out for you !!!

Can anyone explain a hang fire round. what happens, and how it happens.
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Basically it's the delay of ignition spark, to ignite the main charge. There can be one or more problem areas, between the primer and powder. Hang-fires are less common in rim and centerfire cartridges but they do happen. I mainly see this in "old" ammo, especially shotshells. Hang-fires are very common in M/L's, mostly due to dirty vents. We teach hangfires, missfires and how to address them ... :)

Be Safe !!!
 
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ronz

New member
Another example would be when you strike a match and it don’t light right away
You can see the reaction starting then poof it lights (sometimes)
 
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ScotchMan

New member
If I pull the trigger and hear a click, I tap rack bang immediately. If a hangfire happens, and the round is on the floor, the bullet and case will only move a couple inches from each other. Without the pressure of the chamber to contain the explosion, the round isn't going to injure anyone, just scare you.

I know the NRA classes train to hold your gun downrange for 30 seconds. I was trained tap rack bang any time the gun doesn't fire in a defensive pistol class, and I practice this way. I regularly use dummy rounds to practice malfunction clearing, and the idea is to have the behavior be muscle memory. In real life, whether its a hangfire, or a bad round, you need to clear it ASAP.

I realize the OP didn't know he'd had a malfunction and not just run out of ammo, because the slide wouldn't lock back. That is unfortunate, and others have already said the gun should have been made safe before setting it down. However, if one used the above training methodology, a tap rack bang would have ejected the round and locked the slide back (assuming it was out of ammo at that point). Counting rounds is tactically bad for a few reasons in addition to what happened here.

Just an idea for anyone reading, consider training with TRB. I'd never thought of it as a safety measure but in this case it would have prevented a tragedy.
 
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carguychris

New member
I think this thread also underscores the reasoning behind a safety measure I take during my range visits:

I never place any "stuff"- ammo boxes, range bags, staplers, other guns, random personal items, etc.- downrange of the muzzle. Likewise, I won't set a gun down with the barrel pointed towards any piece of impervious (e.g. metal) range equipment, such as a folding table leg.

I try to always clear the chamber and set the gun down with the slide locked back or the cylinder open. However, if this fails- or the gun lacks a functional slide stop- and there is a hangfire, the bullet should go into the backstop rather than ricocheting towards a live body. :eek:
 
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TailGator

New member
I'm not looking to know what I did wrong, which I do already believe me. I don't honestly know if I will ever go to the range again, and at the very least will never use the kimber conversion kit again, nor will I use bulk ammo packs.
Click to expand...

It is obvious from your post that you are very remorseful for the accident. I am glad that your brother is going to be OK. Since that is established, the important thing is for you to learn the right lesson from this incident.

With that in mind, and not to make you feel worse, you need to understand that the accident was not the fault of the conversion kit or the bulk ammo pack. You did not clear the firearm properly. I hope you go back to the range, and when you do you need to keep the muzzle pointed down range while you lock back the slide and visually check the chamber every time you think a pistol is clear. Many people check with their finger before they are satisfied, even if their eyes tell them the chamber is empty.
 
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Stressfire

New member
Deej, everyone covered definition pretty well.

As ScotchMan suggested, I practice TRB as well - mostly by slipping a dummy round or 2 in the mag with my live ammo - I do this on a closed range and when I am the only one there. Yes, I know where in the mag it is - but as ScotchMan, it becomes muscle memory.

I've never had one myself - but I have had some tough primers that I would have to strike multiple times. On a revolver, you don't have much choice but to wait it out or re-strike.

But you should always lock slide back when the gun is not in use.

Best wishes for you and yours
 
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spodwo

New member
My range requires the use of a chamber flag when this is the case. Probably not a bad idea for everyone to consider if using such a gun.
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Yep. One public range I used to shoot at suggested using a spent Shotgun cartridge as there were plenty laying around all the time. Some used a short piece of wooden dowel....

I have at least two pistols that don't have a slide lock feature on them - an old Hi Standard and a .22 conversion kit for my Sig.
 
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Neal_G.

New member
If you do have a 'hangfire' round that has not gone off, then you eject that live round to clear the pistol, won't that round still be able to go off?

I'd hate to picture one firing on the ground at my range after I ejected it .
 
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sakata8242

New member
If you do have a 'hangfire' round that has not gone off, then you eject that live round to clear the pistol, won't that round still be able to go off?

I'd hate to picture one firing on the ground at my range after I ejected it .
Click to expand...

Sure, it can still go off. The difference is it won't propel the actual bullet very far if it's on the ground, as the expanding gasses will find the path of least resistance -- which outside of a gun barrel is the relatively thin brass casing. There will be an explosion, the case will split and may even fly a good distance, and there may be brass shrapnel. And of course, the bigger the cartridge, the bigger the boom. But the myths of people actually getting "shot" by cartridges cooking off on the ground outside of a gun barrel are just that -- myths. I'm not saying I'd want to be near or hold a cartridge that cooks off like that, but I'd probably stand a better chance of walking away than if that same cartridge cooked off in a gun barrel that was pointed at me.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
I can see that the TRB gang has never had a real hangfire. If you have ever had a round go off part way out of the chamber, spraying brass and burning powder all over and wrecking the gun, you might not be so glib and full of it about how nothing bad can happen.

I know that you think it is necessary to pretend you are in deadly combat every time you fire a gun, but if you can't tell the difference between a gunfight and a range session, you are in bad shape.

I have seen hangfires go off in rifles and pistols and a friend had a BAR receiver wrecked when he took "immediate action" after a misfire that turned into a hangfire. I once had a batch of WWII German 7.9 that hung fire almost every round, sometimes as long as 10 seconds. Didn't much matter in a K.98k, but since I was not being attacked by the Americans, I made sure not to open it up for at least a half minute.

Jim
 
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Sheriff Gotcha

New member
  • Are these hang fires common in factory ammo of today?
  • Or just primarily in old surplus ammo?
  • Would pulling the trigger again for a second strike be a bad idea in the case of a misfire?
 
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g.willikers

New member
When the mysterious click is heard, instead of bang, it's not always clear if it's a hangfire or the gun is empty.
Especially with autos.
The decision as what to do may be overridden by the often repeated reflex to open the action and look.
And when can it be safe to assume there's no hangfire, anyway?
They can go off at any time.
Then be sure that the ejection port, as well as the muzzle, is facing a safe direction, away from the person holding the gun and everyone else.
If there's, indeed, a delayed reaction round, and it goes off before exiting the gun, at least the pieces, hopefully, won't hit anyone.
 
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