need advice for an anti-gun girlfriend who feels mace is enough.

D

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
"Having" a gun without the skill and will to use it appropriately may (or may not) endanger her more than being unarmed.

Hopefully she will learn (without being hurt) that her most lethal weapon is her brain. Until she takes responsibility for her own safety, get her all the preparation and (appropriate) tools possible.

Even the use of OC requires knowing which offering is most effective, whether to get spray or stream delivery and how to employ it most effectively.

Hopefully, as she becomes aware of the limits of OC, she will become increasingly interested in other techniques and tools.

How does she feel about knives? ;)

Perhaps the folks in the CQC forum would be of help.
 
M

MitchSchaft

New member
My girlfriend is against guns. I'm also not very skilled in trying to persuade people in certain situations. This semester she is being forced to take classes on campus at our local university. Now, this campus is not the safest, especially at night. She has no choice but to take night classes because she works full-time during the day. Last year someone was abducted, raped, and murdered from this campus. This makes her even more paranoid, aside from other stories about this campus. She wants to get a thing of mace to make her "feel better". I'm trying to tell her that "feeling better" about the situation is not enough. I'm more concerned about her safety than laws. Carrying mace on campus is against the law just as much as carrying a handgun. I have a carry permit, but it's still illegal. I would like to hear some of your thoughts on this situation.

Mitch
 
L

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
A (perhaps THE) first question to ask someone interested in self defense is, "could you actually shoot someone (with a gun)?"

If the answer is , "no," then I'd never recommend a firearm.

Perhaps down the line, further conversation, exposure, etc. may bring 'em around, but there's no reason for a person who can't (couldn't) shoot in SD to have a firearm.

If a spray is the "best" she'll go for, in the meantime, make sure she's got the training & mindset to do as good with it as she can.
 
M

Mike in VA

New member
As Dennis pointed out, situational awareness and an alert mind is the key to any defense.

I've been going thru this with my SIL and a neighbor woman who have to walk to/from the Metro in the dark sometimes, here's what we've come up with-
1. Walk with your head up, confidently, with purpose.
2. If OC is the best she'll settle for then so be it, but you need to get across the fact that it must be in hand or very close at hand to be of any use, as muggers won't give a time-out while she digs thru her purse or rumages in her pocket for the spray.
3. Practice using the spray. She needs to know how far it will go, the spray pattern, what it smells like etc. and to be aware of the wind.
4. In the parking lot, walk down the middle of the lane, away from parked cars or vans/SUV that provide cover for a mugger.
5. Walk with a friend/in a group, there's strength in numbers.

I also walked the route with them and asked them to point out where they thought someone could hide or where there was cover. They only 'saw' about half the places a BG could hide or hangout inconspicouously. Again, stay away from walls, pillars,, etc that provide cover. Distance is your firend. (I'm also thinkking about a little 'ambush' one night to see if anyone was paying attnetion. I might get hosed, but it would be worth it:eek: )

Also, consider getting her one of those small hand-held air horns (they're sold in bicycle shops and boating stores) to go with the OC. They're really loud and get attention. HTH, good luck.
 
O

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
I suggest that you have her try Macing an inanimate target, like a tree. Even in windless weather, she's likely to end up inhaling some of her own spray (or foam). Further, suggest the wallet test: if you can get through the spray, you get the contents of her wallet. If she won't trust OC to protect $40 of cash, why trust it for her life?
 
M

MitchSchaft

New member
I guess the board crapped out last night while they were doing "maintenence":). Thanks for the good suggestions. I'll try to talk to her more about awareness and knowing your surroundings and so forth in more detail. I'll also consider letting her mace me:). I feel I could get through the mace, but have no idea what to expect. What type of mace do you guys recommend? And could you provide me with some links on where to purchase it over the internet?

Mitch
 
W

WYO

New member
Many colleges have a RAD (Rape Awareness Defense) program that is taught by police DT instructors. It is a good program. If it's not taught at your GF's school, it may be offered by some other area institutions.

As far as OC goes, it is not very effective against a prepared, determined attacker. What CastleBravo suggests is really a part of the LE training to be certified to carry the stuff.
 
S

SamAdams

Moderator
I agree with labgrade. Let her do what she's comfortable with. If you can talk her into some self defense classes that would be good too. Not a karate class, but a street smart kind of class that also teaches awareness.

Plus, make sure she's got the high-octane spray and that it's a 'fresh' can.

Oh, and sorry you're on a disarmed victim campus. That's just stupid.

Best of Luck.
 
C

Coronach

New member
Ditto

1. Determine if she is capable of effectively carrying a gun. Is she she willing to kill someone if her life was on the line? Is she willing to train? Is she willing to adjust her lifestyle (mode of dress, places she goes, routine before and after leaving the house, etc) around carrying a firearm? If the answer is no to any of these, then she is not capable of effectively carrying a gun. Period.

2. Demonstrate how OC/Mace is not completely effective. As others have suggested, take her outside and, in a safe manner, attack her. Obviously this needs to be done with her consent (duh), with at least minimal protective equipment (cup for you, a mat or soft grass upon which to fall and roll around), and ground rules (no actual striking, but grappling is OK). Also, uhm...if you want to make it a good demo, make sure you're ready to do your thing in the first few seconds...'cause it starts to really suck after 30 ticks or so :D

Mike
 
C

Coronach

New member
Fox Labs

I got nailed with Fox Labs OC spray while in academy, and it was a horrific experience. That stuff is pure liquid devil urine.

However, I still had 10-20 seconds of only moderately impaired activity before I just wanted to go fetal and die. Plenty of time to assault the person who sprayed me.

Knowing you can fight through the stuff is a big asset to someone who has been sprayed. I knew, I could fight (at least for a while). IME, most attackers do not know/do this- they usually stop, blink, cringe, and start howling. But some don't.

Also, if she carries pepper spray, she should probably spray herself with it once, just so she knows what it feels like...she will get some on her if she nails an attacker...she needs to know that she can fight through it, too.

Mike
 
R

ronin308

New member
Well I guess my advice is to take a step back about 200 years... Escort her when you can. I make every possible effort to escort my fiancee when she travels on campus at nighttime. I met her about 3 years ago and she was a meek church girl. I'm trying to change her mindset so that she isn't in condition white all the time. It is hard to change someone when they've been in condition white for 17 years of their life! She doesn't feel confident enough yet to carry a firearm. Guns used to "creep her out" and now I have her to the point where she does a good bit of dryhandling every day. She is 100% pro-gun now and she wants to carry once she feels confident enough with her own ability. She has 2 more years of college left and by the time she graduates, I'm almost positive she will be carrying. But until then I will escort her where she needs to go. Your gf might not respond kindly to this because of a pride and/or independence issue. My fiancee loves it because she sees it as me taking a very active step to take care of her. It works for us, it might not work out for you.

Dan
 
G

gdw

New member
See now, my wife complains that I've made her paranoid. She's got the oc spray on her key chain and does carry it in a ready mode. If I'm traveling and she's alone, she say she's scared about every noise in the house. I tell her - we've got a shepherd and a lab (intruder detection) and a winchester defender under the bead with 7 buck shot shells in the tube and another box of five (no kids in the house). If that ain't enough to get her through any sort of trouble, then there isn't a police force in the nation that will.

My wife was not anti-gun but was anti-handgun. Now she'll go to the range and have a good time too. We're rather infrequent visitors- once every month or so. She often out-shoots me (we'll bet something silly like doing dishes for a week, etc.)
 
D

dZ

New member
i saw a training video of military doods being full face maced with open eyes and then required to complete complex tasks

If you showed her that, she might reconsider the chemical weapon responce

But Truth be told, if someone really wants to grab you, you are pretty much toast

No one is at full defcon 3 alert 24/7

Being aware & dangerous looking, makes the random dood look elsewhere for easier prey. If she had the mace and projected a don't mess with me attitute, she might avoid as many assaults as she would carrying a handgun.

Obviously, she does not want to be in the situation where she wishes she had a gun.

Get her to the range with a 22lr revolver and i would bet she will be buying a Glock with in a year
 
B

bruels

New member
I have been hit with Mace, CN, CS, and OC in various police training protocols. It is bothersome, but if you put your mind to it you can work through it. The value of OC or any other chemical agent is surprise. I recommend that you make it clear to anyone who chooses a chemical defense is to not hang around to see their assailant rolling around on the ground crying like a baby. They may be sadly disappointed.
 
M

MitchSchaft

New member
She's anti-gun to the bone. She even told me once that if she gets attacked/killed then it's meant to be and it was her time:). She's a little wacko like that. That was a couple years back, though. But, she has told me that she believes it's important, when you're stuck in a situation where the threat of attack is possible, to walk with confidence and make yourself look "aware". So, that lets me know that she does think about it. But, there's only so much a 5'2" 115lb woman can do. She's expressed her concern about her safety, and wants mace. I've even told her that I would escort her to and from if/when I get the chance.
 
M

MitchSchaft

New member
bruels,
Yeah, I've been trying to let her know that it's more important to totally incapacitate(sp?) the attacker rather than piss him off with some chemical. That's the way I view it. I would rather make for damn sure they don't have the chance to continue their attack if I had the chance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top