Necessity versus Luxury

[44 AMP]

Guns are always worth something

Maybe not what you paid for them, maybe more, but always worth something.

And they hold that value better than anything else. The $200 shotgun I bought 20 years ago is still able to get me $200 (and likely more). The $200 dot matrix printer I bought the same year? Not even. Probably would have to pay someone to take it.

Guns can always be sold fast, if you are willing to take a slight loss (or maybe just sell for what you paid), nearly instant cash. Rare books, paintings, even precious metals and gems only have value when there are people with money who want them. As long as there are guns and ammo, somebody will want them.

Sure, nearly all my guns are a luxury, but so what? I worked for my money, and spent it on what I wanted to. Guns have real world utility beyond anything else you can buy. And they last. Where are the porterhouse steaks and fine wines of yesteryear? (ok, some of the wine is still around).

Unlike money put in paper "securities", the money you put in guns isn't going to go poof because somebody made a bad call in the market. You may not get as big a return, but you can always get something.

 

[old bear]

Anything becomes a luxury when it is not needed to continue our current life style, provide for our family, or to protect our family. That being said, I’ve always felt that within reason, from time to time, everyone needs a little luxury in life. I REALLY want a Holland and Holland double in one of the African calibers, do I have the money, yes will I buy one NO. That is over the top. My next luxury will be an N frame, 38/44, M-27, or 520 NYSP, but only when the right one comes along at a decent price.

Have a good and a safe Labor Day weekend all.

 

[gunmoney]

I agree with what Peetzakilla said. In perspective, all of our guns are luxuries. In American or "western" terms, luxury doesn't hit until we have a certain number of specific function guns.

Sefner, I would like you to re-think your post in this thread. While the info and graph you provided is correct, they are there as a basis in which to build on and not an end all be answer to the question firearm effectiveness. Many people still feel that you don't have to "aim" with a shotgun. Those are the same people that continue to miss with a shotgun. A shotgun can be devastating up close, but what if your target is not close? A 30/30can be brutal against a human, but again, what if you miss, or what if you have numerous targets. What if you have three targets, have seven rounds, and the situation allows you to only be capable of making 25% of your shots. Many feel that home defense is not only protecting a cat burglar in the night, but a wide range of possible scenarios. If you add up all of the information and factor up all of rational scenarios, a high capacity semi-auto carbine comes out on top time much of the time. My point is not necessarily to disagree with you. It is to make you think about the issue a little more and realize that it is not just an issue of which one is more terminally effective, at close range, on a fixed target, in controlled conditions.

 

[TheNatureBoy]

For me purchasing guns has never been a necessity, always a luxury. I've been very selective as far as purchases go recently. I'm into using the handguns and rifles that I have vs collecting them. I have on the other hand spent more money purchasing reloading equipment and components related to target shooting. Hey, we all need something to do and besides that...its fun

 

[Uncle Buck]

Over a billion people live on less than one dollar a day. Another billion live on $2 a day.

The poorest person most of us know, even someone who lives in a homeless shelter, lives in relative opulence compared to the world-wide standard.

I think I understand what Peetzakilla was trying to illustrate, but you also have to understand that in a lot of these countries, the cost of most things are very cheap.

My wife taught college in the Philippines and earned $300.00 a month. That is darn good money for an entry level teacher. Her family, when she was growing up, included 12 people. When they did not have money, the walked down to the beach to pick up clams, snails and crabs for their dinner. I know people who live on a fixed income of just $500.00 a month here in Missouri.

Yes, A firearm can be a luxury, but in some situations, it is a necessity. I had to put a steer down tonight. I could not get close enough to do it with a knife, so I used a pistol.

Each of us have different luxuries and necessities in our lives. I have a tractor with a backhoe on it. I could dig holes by hand, but with my physical condition, it would take six months to get it three months deep.

I have an nail gun. I could put the nails in the old fashion way, but the nail-gun allows me to do it quicker and accomplish more.

Peetzakilla has a pizza shop. He probably uses either gas or electricity to cook his pizza with. He could do it the old fashion way and use a wood oven, but gas/electricity is a lot cheaper and easier to maintain temperatures with.

Luxury versus necessity...

 

[aarondhgraham]

2 are a necessity,,,

The other 20 are pure luxury.

I have a model 36 that is essential for self defense,,,
I have a Ruger 22/45 plinker that is essential for my sanity.

All others are because I wanted them.

.

 

[Sefner]

gunmoney, you are indeed correct, there are many cases in which a carbine would be more effective than a shotgun. But demigod suggested that a shotgun is inferior in every way to a carbine for home defense. If the target is not up close... my idea of home defense is the "normal person's" home and its immediate surroundings. No home that I can think of has a space that could put a shooter outside of a shotgun's effect range of their target. But plenty of them have spaces conducive to combat ranges in which a shotgun's capacity to wound is needed. This also applies to the space immediately outside the home (between the door and the street, the space between houses, etc etc... obviously if you live on tens of acres that's different).

My main point was that a carbine is not superior in every way to a shotgun for home defense.

Back onto the thread's topic:

I would like to point out that MANY of the countries that live on "a dollar a day" or "two dollars a day" seem to have a LOT of guns. See war-torn Africa, some parts of the middle east, etc etc. And many wealthy countries (by comparison) have relatively few guns. This also applies to the ghettos of any inner-city here in America. The constant conflict that is caused by poverty seems to create a necessity for firearms.

 

[jtmckinney]

Guns are one of the most important things that keep us strong as a people way deep down. And by us I mean Americans.

I have spent a lot of time in Mexico, Central America and South America over the last 25 years on work assignments in the steel and cement business. Their governments and people with wealth and power (a lot of the wealth and power come from drugs and other illeagal activitys) is because they do not have to fear an uprising of the people. It would be pitch forks and axes against the guns of the miliatary and police.

I have thought many times about what makes America different. These countries also have tremendous natural resources both people and mineral. I think it comes down to how they choose their leaders. The people in power do not want the people to have power, that would make them answerable to the people.

There are also people of wealth and power here in America who want us in the same situation.

I could go on until this becomes a book and I am sure there are already better ones written.

James

 

[Legionnaire]

While I mostly agree with peetzakilla, I might argue that my political philosophy requires that one gun is a necessity. But I won't belabor that point.

Practically speaking, there is no doubt that I have more guns than I "need," even to my own way of thinking. I am a hunter and sport shooter, and to give up all my guns would mean I would have to change my lifestyle. So I would suggest that I could (if I had to) do with a four gun battery that I might argue would meet the criterion of "necessity." They would allow me to retain my lifestyle and remain true to my political philosophy. I guess all the others would be, by definition, luxuries.

 

[gunmoney]

Sefner, Not to derail here too much but what I believe Demigod is saying, and what I feel also, is that a carbine may not indeed be superior to a shotgun in every way, as you said, but that a carbine is much more capable of many more things than a shotgun is. It boils down to one's requirements of home defense is. Again, think urban apartment vs. rural farm, and that each setting may benefit from a particular firearm. But, if you were to melt all of the different home defense settings, skill levels, and situations into a pot and poured them into a gun mold, the gun you would have as a result would be a semi-auto carbine. Home defense to me, covers a broad range of eventualities and in many of them a shotgun just doesn't cut it. That does not me that a shotgun can not be used effectively for a home defense tool. Also, a lot of people resent the shotgun, in that regard, because they feel that it is a lowest common denominator in terms of firearms and their required skill. When many reach a certain level of skill they feel that a shotgun is a limitation rather than the "obliteration death ray" many feel that it is.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I guess, as is common in many of these discussions, the answer depends almost entirely on the definition of a word, in this case, "necessity"


In the context of the OP, "necessity" seems to mean something that is "needed" in order to continue doing something enjoyable, or in case of some unlikeable but possible future situation.

That definition is terribly narrow. A 12ga shotgun may be a "necessity" in the Alaskan bush if you're going to survive. That same gun may be a "necessity" for skeet shooting but the skeet shooting itself is NOT a "necessity" so I would submit that the "need" in that case is manufactured, by the American Dream, rather than being a true necessity.

Most of us have not and never will know what it's like to live without true necessities. Most of us have not and never will be in a situation wherein our firearms truly qualify as "necessary".

What we do with our firearms, for 99.9% of us 99.999% of the time, is play games.

26,000 children die every day because they lack the basic necessities of life. Thousands more go blind because they lack 25 cent vitamin drops for their eyes. Thousands of women are raped and murdered because their nation lacks a functional government and "soldiers" rule the land without morals or mercy.

Let's not confuse our playtime with necessity.