ND at a local gun shop yesterday

V

vertigo7

New member
The details are scarce, but the newsblip I caught on the 11 o'clock news last night said it was a teenage employee of the shop who fired the rifle. There's no mention in either article why this employee was fooling around with a rifle with a round chambered.

I've visited this store a few times, and it's where I took my CCW class to get my carry permit. In my experience, the employees have always been *very* careful with making sure a gun is cleared and empty before handling it or passing it to a customer to examine, so I'm really curious to find out how this ND happened.

The local news website won't even call it a gun shop:Man accidently shot at sporting goods store

And the article from the local paper:
Shooting

vertigo7
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
Unless the firearm loaded itself and fired itself....
ND applicable.

Couple days ago was lookin at an oldish front stuffer...
Asked the owner if he had verified unloaded.
Answer was the rod goes to just ahead of the flash hole.
Felt with rod.....flexy feel, like a patch or wad.
Fired up compressor and blew in the back, something solid went flyin and a little bp trailed along behind. NOW it is unloaded and the rod goes clank against the breech plug.

Safe works.
And is cheap.

Sam
 
B

Bogie

New member
Don't forget that an anti could sneak a round in at one time or another in hopes of having the "gun culture" look bad - always assume they're loaded, and check...

Yeah, I'm paranoid. So?
 
V

vertigo7

New member
Here's the latest update from the local paper:
Gunshot victim.

I'm still trying to figure out how he could bring the rifle to his shoulder and still have a round go through the countertop, because their display cases are not nearly tall enough to get in the way.

vertigo7
 
C

C.R.Sam

New member
chambered a round and then brought it up to his shoulder. He then pointed it toward the front door and fired a round."
Click to expand...
If factual. That takes the AD/ND argument out of the picture.

Heavy culpability there.

Sam
 
A

Ala Dan

Member in memoriam
"Every firearm is ALWAYS LOADED"! Seems the lad forgot
that?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
C

CWL

New member
No charges yet on this?

Seems like he deliberately chambered a round, pointed the weapon in an unsafe direction & pressed the trigger.
 
R

Radicalcleric

New member
STILL prefer AD...

Stupid to say "Unless gun loaded itself..." Of course that will never happen, and obviously someone erred to cause the gun to ACCIDENTALLY be discharged. I am sure that 99.99% of ADs are due to pilot error. But I still say we don't need to get all high and mighty and start assigning blame and calling names. Humans make mistakes. We preach safety and try to make as few mistakes as possible, but to err is human, as someone once said. Please don't bother to argue with me on this point. It's how I feel and you will not change my mind. I know you feel the same.
 
Z

Zahnster

New member
The phrase "chambered a round" throws me off. He "cycled the bolt" (or whatever kind of action it was) I can see. But chambering a round sounds like he knew it was loaded and still pulled the trigger.
 
P

pdmoderator

New member
Police said Juston Arthur Stevens, 18, of Jacksonville was given permission to use a telephone behind the store counter by his mother, Judy Lynn DeFonzo, who works at the business. While Stevens was on the phone, according to police reports, he picked up the high-powered rifle, "chambered a round and then brought it up to his shoulder. He then pointed it toward the front door and fired a round."
Click to expand...
Not AD or ND. Deliberate.

- pdmoderator
 
Z

Zahnster

New member
AD - accidental discharge.

I prefer ND since I agree with many here that accidents in regard to firearms are from negligance.
 
A

AR-10

New member
I've never seen the layout of this store, but here's a guess.

He was using the phone. Maybe sitting down. Maybe behind a counter/wall that he could not see over.

That is no excuse, of course. No excuse for the rifle to be sitting around loaded, either, if that was the case. Pretty easy to "accidentally" chamber a round if you assume the magazine is empty.

Sounds like extreme stupidity coupled with negligence. Accidental is way too lame. Malicious sounds too harsh.

I've had a few accidental discharges at the range. My Anaconda has a very light trigger and every once in a while it goes off a split second before I am ready to pull the trigger. Still my fault, as I am actually touching the trigger, but that is about the only type of unintentional discharge that I can consider accidental. Mostly, I suppose, because it is happening to me. ;)

If I am dry firing a gun or cleaning it or twirling it in the air like Roy Rogers and it goes off, that is not an accident. That is negligence. Most unintentional discharges fall into that catagory.
 
E

Edward429451

Moderator
I dont count extra rounds sent downrange at the range as ND's or AD's. If you spend enough time at the range it will happen.
(As long as no rules were violated)



That is no excuse, of course. No excuse for the rifle to be sitting around loaded,
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that I agree with this. It sounds good, but it was a gunshop and gunshops do get robbed and such. Any robber with the cajones to rob a gun store would probably be wearing body armor, so a loaded rifle would be just the ticket to quell that nonsense.

Of course a "hot" gunstore would have to be very strict on who was allowed behind the counter... Mama may be safe but the boy aint mama. No exceptions unless approved by owner. (Mama, you're fired)
 
B

Bruce626

New member
AD vs ND vs Whoops vs "Yeah, that's what I meant to do"

Characterizing an "error" as a Negligent Discharge instead of an "Accidental" Discharge is good, solid psychology. I don't want anyone around me blasting off erroneous rounds in my direction saying "Ooops, just an Accident"... I want them to feel the disgrace of having f'd up and being labled Negligent. PC sucks.

It seems like, but may not be fully true, that the guys on this forum who have a serious militaryor LEO background tend to favor the ND view and others favor the AD view. While YMMV, my mileage is set in the "if you screw up, you're NEGLIGENT" part of the spectrum. I know it helps keep my mind in the right place.

--Bruce.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top