Nationwide Lead Ammo Ban

[BlueTrain]

First, I'd have to say that losing jobs isn't going to bother anyone. At least it hasn't lately. And second, if you shoot at an indoor range, you're probably ingesting an unhealthy amount of lead yourself. That's something real to think about. It doesn't harm animals, though, and total metal jackets are way to expensive for private citizens to use, too, I suppose. Oh, I don't imagine it's any worse than smoking and that never killed anyone that I know of.

Naturally the real problem is legislators who listen to their constituants. What we need is a government that totally ignores their subjects. It would be much more efficient.

 

[Al Norris]

Blue Train, your sardonic and sententious comments will be lost on some few.

 

[spacecoast]

Relative specific gravities and melting points (degrees F)

Platinum - 21.4, 3220
Gold - 19.3, 1945
Lead - 11.35, 621
Silver - 10.5, 1760
Copper - 8.96, 1983
Nickel - 8.8, 2647
Brass - 8.4 to 8.7, 1710
Iron - 7.9, 2797
Stainless steel - 7.5 to 8, 2750
Zinc - 7.13, 787
Cast iron - 6.8 to 7.8, 2150 to 2360

Lead is obviously the most effective bullet in terms of density and low melting point, but there are alternatives available now (like copper) which are much more costly and harder to fabricate (not to mention lighter). Raw copper is 200%+ more expensive than raw lead.

Zinc would seem like a likely candidate, and is only 1/3 the price of copper (same price as lead), but would make for some pretty lightweight bullets. (Post-82 pennies are 97.5% zinc). I have no idea what a pure zinc bullet would do to the bore, but chances are that copper-plated ones would be fine.

Iron and steel are both relatively cheap, but are relatively light and have really high melting points as well. Not to mention, shooting steel would seem to be really hard on a barrel unless it was plated with copper or something else.

I'm not advocating any certain position, just throwing out some facts. I like my <relatively> cheap lead bullets A ban on lead would make it hard on all of you who fabricate your own, even the lack of wheel weights after 2011 is going to drive up the price

 

[BlueTrain]

Antipas, you're gonna havta use smaller words just for me to unnerstand.

But seriously, I thought this subject of steel ammo for shotguns was past history. I've never owned a shotgun, though, and likely I don't keep up with the developments. And also seriously, airborne lead is a concern at indoor ranges but it certainly has nothing to do with hunting. And that's really why total metal jackets, which I think is the term, is now available.

Back when I was handloading, I don't ever recall any cheap lead bullets. Could you get them at Cheaper Than Dirt?

 

[alloy]

Is it ok for birds and frogs to swallow a bunch of copper or zinc pellets?
Got a penny stuck down a cast once it turned green.

Maybe gold would be better.

 

[JN01]

If the relatively small amount of unrecovered lead from lost game and/or shotgun pellets caused millions of wildlife deaths, then shouldn't there have been massive amounts of lead poisoned dead animals around battlefields where huge numbers of lead projectiles could be found on the ground, in trees, horse and human carcasses, etc? The Civil War should have killed off at least a few species you would think.

 

[stargazer65]

I were borned and razed neer Geddysberg, PA. I ternd owt jus fyne!

 

[HiBC]

Most anyone who has had aquariums knows copper is a toxin in the tank.A few pennies will kill your fish.Copper is one way to rid a tank of pest snails.
Oh well,lets ban copper bullets,too!!!(especially since they are being used in commercial ammunition)
But then,shouldn't we remove all copper plumbing?heck,lots of it still has lead solder.Replace it with PolyVinylChloride plastic pipe,solvent bonded with Methylene Chloride,MethylEthyl Ketone,and the like.
This is part of the means to an end deals.
Lead is a common man's instrument of resistance.That is the real agenda.All resistance is futile.You must assimilate.
Yeah,right.
Charleton Heston Lives!!!

 

[Edward429451]

My friend has lead drain lines in his house. I touched them once. Do you think I should go to the hospital? I petted my dog before I had washed my hands too...should I have him put down so he doesn't go through all that pain they talked about?

 

[Al Norris]

Antipas, you're gonna havta use smaller words just for me to unnerstand.

Pithy, my man... Your comments were pithy.

 

[ADB]

I don't know what's more alarming in this thread: the paranoia, or the utter disregard for science.

 

[csmsss]

or the utter disregard for science.

If you can point to any objective "science" in this thread, please do so.

 

[highvel]

Any lead ammo ban would have NOTHING to do with considerations of wildlife, environment, or human health issues, it's about the firearms people!!

 

[HiBC]

ABD,we do not eat the bullet hole in game.The wound trauma is trimmed away.The bullet itself is designed to retain most of its weight.From a 165 gr bullet,maybe 40 gr will be lost.The effects of high velocity damage tissue in a larger radius than the lead does.However,this trimming typically does not take place in the field.The tissue is not left for scavengers.
We go to great pains to not create bullet trauma to the organs commonly in the gutpile.We prefer not to have the contents of them on our meat.As the gutpile is intact,it follows it does not have lead shards.
Science is good.What is a problem is people with agendas about greed and power corrupt science.
Will there be any lead or cadmium or any other toxic metals in the batteries of hybrid/electric cars?What about the mercury in light bulbs?You see,here in my home town,they recomend we not eat more than one fish a month from our local reservoir.Horsetooth Res,Northern Colorado.It is not about lead,it is about mercury.Yet we will be mandated to mercury lghtbulbs.
Isthere any toxic metal in all the personal electronics?
The hypocricy reveals the dishonesty.
Like,say,Al Gore lavish lifestyle and overconsumption.Greed and power are the motivation.
Minds of tofu are indoctrinated to become useful idiots

 

[Double Naught Spy]

That is precisely my point. Plenty of things harm animals in the wild, a lot more than lead does.

The problem here is that we are putting lead into environments where lead was not located previously. It may not be the number one problem affecting wildlife, but not being number one doesn't make it invalid. There are a lot worse things than skin cancer that will kill you, but that doesn't stop folks from trying to put an end to skin cancer. In short, just because there are other things out there that are more harmful does not in any way mean that the cause or claims are not appropriate. There may be lots of reasons why their claims are not valid, but lead not topping the threats to animals isn't one of them.

 

[ADB]

ABD,we do not eat the bullet hole in game.The wound trauma is trimmed away.The bullet itself is designed to retain most of its weight.From a 165 gr bullet,maybe 40 gr will be lost.The effects of high velocity damage tissue in a larger radius than the lead does.However,this trimming typically does not take place in the field.The tissue is not left for scavengers.

Except that studies of processed wild venison, packaged for home consumption or sale, still show hundreds of microfragments of lead, even in parts of the meat that have no blood marks or other telltale signs. In fact, the North Dakota Department of Health for that reason has now recommended that food banks discontinue the use of hunter-killed venison. Here's an article on a doctor who discovered lead particles in the meat he himself had shot, and raised the alarm.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/local/article_da4e1535-c410-564a-a443-4404ba38a3ef.html

Will there be any lead or cadmium or any other toxic metals in the batteries of hybrid/electric cars?

They run on lithium-based batteries, not lead or cadmium.

What about the mercury in light bulbs?You see,here in my home town,they recomend we not eat more than one fish a month from our local reservoir.Horsetooth Res,Northern Colorado.It is not about lead,it is about mercury.Yet we will be mandated to mercury lghtbulbs.

The amount of mercury in compact fluorescent light bulbs is greatly exaggerated. The amount released, even if you shatter one, is less than the amount of mercury released by burning coal to power an old style lightbulb. However, if you're worried, you could get LED light bulbs, which don't contain any mercury. The downside is they aren't quite as bright as CFLs, at least not yet, because the technology for high output LEDs is still maturing.

Isthere any toxic metal in all the personal electronics?

Not since 2003, which is when lead and other dangerous metals were banned in electronics imported into the EU, leading manufacturers to eliminate lead and so forth from any of their products worldwide.

 

[Gary L. Griffiths]

Here's an article on a doctor who discovered lead particles in the meat he himself had shot, and raised the alarm.

Interesting. The article was from 2008 -- I wonder if he shot his next deer with a Barnes bullet, and if so, what the results were.

 

[HiBC]

So,the lead matters and the mercury does not.
You could handle the problem by using non lead ammo for yourself,but you prefer to ban lead.
Yet you tell me if I have a problem with mercury light bulbs,I should buy LED light bulbs.I agree.with that point.You shoot whatever you want.Leave my lead alone.
Lately I have heard about one type of person,who if they don't want a gun,they do not buy a gun.Another type of person wants to ban guns.
How much ammunition do you shoot a year?
I make my own bullets.I cannot do that with anything but lead.
22 rimfires must use lead bullets.Kids and entry level shooters won't have much chance .
You may call me paranoid,and I may call you naive
But I say when you take the home cast bullet away,you take away the claw and tooth of the populace.A gun you cannot feed is useless.
I want my great grandchildren to be able to shoot a 22.I want them to be able to home cast a lead bullet.
They will be far more betrayed by a world where they lack the LIBERTY to do so in your utopia than they will by the trace lead you worry about.

 

[Eghad]

I have question..sorry for the lack of comment but maybe somebody could check the math on these two and give a definitive answer so I could intelligently compare the two.

This is the level of lead found in the game in this article which talks about lead in wild game.

1.27 micrograms per deciliter, compared with 0.84 for those who ate no game

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...deer-venison-condors-meat-lead-ammunition-ban


This is from the EPA online site that talks about the action levels of contaminates in drinking water

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/index.html#8

For copper, the action level is 1.3 mg/L, and for lead it is 0.015 mg/L.

So how does that translate to micrograms and deciliters for the EPA figure?

If I do this right that would translate to 15,000 micrograms in one liter of water?????????????? Been a long time folks.

Please feel free to correct me if I did not do it right.

For you chemists/math folks/engineers out there I know we have some smart guys on here how does that compare to the lead in game.

 

[Al Norris]

A deciliter is 1/10 of a liter. A microgram (µg) is expressed as 1e-06.00g or .000001g.

So that, 1.27µg per deciliter = 12.7µg per liter. For reloaders, that is .000195 gr per liter (33.814 oz. --> 32 oz = 1 quart).