My new Duty Gun: A Custom .357 N-frame

[newerguy]

I am still confident that this post is entirely satire. Armored car drivers? Juvi. lockup gaurds? Springs getting weak? How about a "civilian contractor" in "sandland", i.e. mall security gaurd in Henderson Nevada. I'm amused.

In all honesty, there may be some application for a magnum handgun with optics and a laser. I don't know what, mayby siloette (I've never quite figured those guys out)? Otherwise, it looks like S&Wis trying to get at the video game crowd.

 

[Doug.38PR]

my theory:

samsmix is a big Star Wars fan.

His desired firearms bears a striking resemblance to Han Solo's laser pistol:

Ever noticed this huge magnum powered gun hanging on Han's hip?

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I thought Solo carried a broomhandle Mauser and the furball carried a crossbow - made to shoot energy.

 

[Doug.38PR]

Next movie (if there is one) he should carry a S&W N 327 .357 to shoot laser cartridges

 

[mordis]

Croyance and VUpdblue Im very insulted by your insults to my profession. IM NOT A RENT A COP. Im a Security guard, NO i dont have power trip issues, no i dont act like a wanna be cop. This is getting old, im sick and tired of being put down just becuase i work in security. I act professionaly out at my client sites, i train with my weapon(im a armed guard at a high threat site).

Sure there may be those out there that are police academy rejects but not everyone in security acts like that. By making broad generalizing comments like "rent a cop" is very insulting to those of us that take our jobs seriously and enjoy what we do. That does not make me a mall ninja either.

People wounder why its so hard to get high quality security, well its prevailing attitudes and comments like this that prevent the quality applicants from comming in the door. That and the industry is still maturing(even after 150+ years lol), and as the need for adaquate security rises so will our pay and our regard as professionals. I feel that i am a security professional not a rent acop. I and many MANY security officers dont have any cop powers. Those states that do give us arrest powers are rare, cant think of one of the top of my head, tho im sure one is out there.

Sure i want to be a cop, but that dosent mean i dont feel i have a rewarding, enjoyable career here. Every day i go to my site, i get thank you's from the client just for being there. They were robbed at gun point recently which is why im there in the first place. Since we(my company) has been there they have yet to be robbed.

 

[mordis]

What is wrong with that firearm? sure id take the optics off, but man a 8 shot .357mag that uses moon klips, id feel quite at home with that on my hip instead of my G17. Sure id loose some capacity, but it makes up for it with a good round.

Why do people think that any wheel gun over 6shots is for the video game crowd?? Do you people not realize that unless revolver technology evolvs to something better they will slowly, and i mean really slowly die out. I feel that increased capacity and faster reloading times are the future of revolver tech, it has to be, those are the exact reasons that autos took over there role in law enforcement. Why is it so hard for people to accept that revolvers must evolv, change is good. More capacity and faster reloads are great.

Im really shouldting type when i pissed. Being called a rent a cop infuriates me. It insinuates im unprofessional. Yes i now your comments where not directed at me, but it was a general comment and i was insulted by it.

 

[VUPDblue]

Ok, Mordis, I apollogize to you or anyone else that takes offense to the 'rent-a-cop' statement. But don't get your panties in such a wad, you weren't even involved in the discourse here until your post about being offended, so obviously any such comments were not directed at you. FWIW, 'rent-a-cop' is a frame of mind IMHO, not just someone who is in the private security sector. Now a juicy little tidbit of my history for those who are paying attention: In college (not all that long ago) I worked as a private armed security guard for a major national agency (Mordis, it was the first detective agency in the US if that's a clue) and this indellable experience is where I formed my opinion of *some* in the security industry. I took pride in my job and I held my head high regularly from 4-midnight every single night. It was not an easy job, but it seemed to me that it was a magnet for idiots. I don't know how some of these people actually found their way out of the house in the morning, and as a general rule, they would be the ones druling over some scoped hand-cannon that weighs as much as a lead brick. If you like that kind of gun, great, go get one, and let me put a box of shells through it, I'm sure we'll both have a great time. If you are hallucinating or having illusions of grandeur about becoming a police officer and strapping that thing to your thigh and becoming the ultimate badass because of it, then go sit in front of your X-box and try not to get lost in your own hallucinations.
Mordis, be safe at your job and don't let the idiots get you down, even if they are your supervisors (you have to admit that there are a few). If you are ever in the Indianapolis area, I'll buy you a beer, from one Security Officer to another...

 

[croyance]

Here is what is wrong with the gun - it isn't the most important aspect of any of the jobs he names, nor the skill with which it is used. Nor does the gun - with the use of the rails with which it is equipped - seem to make a good carry gun, open or otherwise.
I simply don't think he or anybody is cooler for carrying it, thigh holster or not.

FWIW I didn't say he was a security guard, I said he was a rent-a-cop. As VUPDBlue said, it isn't just the profession, it is the attitude of the person.
Yes, private security doesn't have police powers, but RAC types like to pretend like they do, they ape police, and try to impress you with the idea that they do have those powers.
And there are fallacious ideas about guns they spout off.

I do think such a gun could be useful, but only in limited circumstances would the combination of qualities be ideal. Because of that, I don't know that the material itself yields much advantage, except for marketing.
Even then, I think a similarly equipped shotgun might be better. I mean, what is it for, home defence? Police raids? Limited duration scenarios, where nobody is humping around with the thing for hours? If it is a secondary weapon, I'd be worried about getting a clean draw and how to keep all the stuff hanging off it from being damaged during those fast and violent actions.

That's just me. I'm willing to admit to a limited knowledge of firearms and if somebody has reasonable arguements for why this is a great combination of features, I'll at least read it and think about it. I certainly haven't seen it in Force on Force simulations.

 

[SnWnMe]

The gun was designed with an entry team's shield man in mind as per S&W. Apparently, a few semi autos have malfunctioned while being fired through a shield's slot. So S&W made a light wheelie (coz the shield is heavy) that is able to take an optic.

Anyhoo, somewhere along the way the decision was made to offer it to the rest of us who do not yet require colostomy bags and still like videogames.

 

[VUPDblue]

Well, hell, that makes perfect sense. Sounds like that little niche is just right for that gun. +1 to Smith for thinking like that. I like the thought of an 8-shot .357 wheelie, but I just don't see that particular setup catching on.

 

[samsmix]

Thank you, Mordis, for throwing down on our behalf. Mall ninjas? So if I DID work in a mall does it mean I should not look serious? Should I not BE serious? I think being lax is how "Rent-a-Cops" got a bad name in the first place. An armed robbery happens in America over 2800 times a day. When you walk around all day every day with a bag of money, it is not a matter of "if" you have an incident, but when. If a stronger street presence is keeps the douch bags at bay, I really don't care what the Barney Fife types think. Now I realized early on that the holo-sight was a bad idea, but I'll stand by the laser. The .44 sized frame intimidates the uninitiated, and that's fine, too. Plus, this gun can back it's looks up as well.

So, who would think I chose poorly if I was getting a 7+1 .45, or just a good ol' M-66? I LIKE revolvers. I carry an auto at times, but I do not feel badly armed with a 6 or 8 shooter.

Actually, entry is (was) a very real possibility in my career, as we had to answer alarm calls and the like. Yes, there were BG's in there once, but we did not have to shoot them.

 

[croyance]

Was that entry with a shield?

It wasn't your work in a mall or as security that made me disparage you, by the way.

 

[mordis]

I to wish to appologize for the harshness of my posts. I probably over reacted. I live in fort wayne VUPDblue(btw did you work at vincennes as a campus cop??) and if i get to that area id love to grab a beer with you. I have had my fair share of run ins with barney fifes in security, but for the most part you can ignore them. Luckly my super visor is a cop from another county and he is pretty knowldgeable(spelling?) in security things.(he does both and has for some time now.

Now on to the gun, i agree that the top rail is a bit much, and would l ike to see a option to remove it. the under rail, imho is of little use. In a reveiw i read they said that due to the the long reach your fingers have to make to reach any optics on that rail, few would actually put one on. Personaly i would love to see it offered with some soft of fixed sight option that has tritium inserts front and back as i have yet to see any revo offered in that fasion.

When it comes to the weight of the gun, if i remember the review correctly its not much heavier then the 686+ tho im probably wrong, but i think it weighs in at 35 oz wich isnt bad in a good duty rig. If i had the cash, i would switch to it in a heart beat. Not that i love my clinton era glock(came stock with 3 10rnd mags....) but id feel alot better with 8 rnds .357mag then 10rnds of 9x19. Sure i could upgrade to 17 round mags, but i feel that if you cant hit your target in 10 your not gonna hit it with 17 either.

 

[croyance]

I agree with the stuff about what you would hit.

I have nothing against revolvers with a higher capacity than six rounds - that isn't what made everybody laugh.

The top rail seems more useful for shooting games and for them, I would have thought the 627 PC would be preferable. If you aren't lugging it around the extra weight might actually be useful.

 

[samsmix]

Okay, I might have been a bit testy, and I'm sorry. Instead of getting up in arms I'll try to just stick to the facts.

We are not required to use drop leg holsters in my job. most of us like them because we work grip aquired (company policy). If you use such a holster your arm will be at your side instead of proped up in the funky chicken position. This does wonders for your funny bone, and improves draw time, too. It would not be my first choice as a cop, or in most security jobs, but since we do not wrestle with people and work grip aquired it is the perfect choice. Frankly, any holster up on your hip would indeed be more comfortable.

Weight? I have carried my M-15 90% of the time, but also carried my 6 inch Ruger GP-100. It's greater punch and longer sight radius were a comfort on rural routes. I stayed in practice and could place my shots at 100 yards if needs be. The weight was not a problem, and since the M-327 weighs less I figure it woulda been fine.

Bulk? Not really a problem as long as it is not heavy.

All that Electro-optical stuff? In the end you'll see that I only added a set of laser grips.

Shield driver's gun? No, we don't have shields, just vests, but I was pushing hard to get them.

Mall Ninjas: I hate Mall Ninjas and other Security Officers with rent-a-cop attitudes. I am a very avid shooter who likes to shoot for it's own sake. I also like cool guns. I do not think that gizmos will make me a better shot. I do not in any way, under any circumstances, think that the gun IS the job, nor do I want to play policeman with my toy gun. Playing cop is a quick way for a Security Officer to land his @** in hot water...and rightfully so.

I do shoot well enough to take full advantage of a top-notch sidearm. Frankly I could do my (former) job with any reliable gun of adequate chambering. Hell, a Tokarev with a 9mm barrel in it would do the job ok.
But like most of you I like nice guns, and if I can carry one at work: GREAT! Did you know anyone who carried a Colt Python back in their heyday? Could the Python do the job better than an M-19 or M-66? No. Were they cool? Heck yeah!

Lacking the ability to carry my new gun at my new job, I'll likely just get an XD or a Glock, or if they will allow a 1911 (turns out .45s are approved) I might go that road. Of course there are .45 wheelguns, too....
....I dunno: we'll see. An XD-.45 seems to be the frontrunner at this time.

 

[Powderman]

If you are still considering a revolver, especially one in .45 ACP, then consider the 625 Smith and Wesson.

It takes full or half moon clips. And, they can be GREASY fast. Do a search for Jerry Miculek's record breaking exhibition shoot, and you'll see what I mean. Six shots, a reload, and six shots--all done within 3 seconds!

The arm used was the 625 Smith and Wesson with full moon clips.

An added advantage is that the Smith will take the serious +P loads that will batter the crap out of a semiauto and will eat them all day long. Our duty load used to be the 230 grain HydraShok. It's a spicy little number, too--920 fps, from a 5 inch barrel. In a 625, they were very comfortable to shoot.

And, the Smith action simply lends itself to tuning. Replace the mainspring, and go two pounds lighter on the rebound spring, and you have a SWEET action. No filing required!

Good luck, and stay safe out there, bro.