My liberal brother, anti-gun, anti self-defense

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Springfield XD40 Man

New member
Me and my brother got into a heated conversation today, after I showed him my concealed carry permit, something I am proud of.:D My brother all of sudden began grilling me as to why I have a gun, I have four guns.:D I told him because this is America and it is my right to defend myself, plus the second ammendment gives me that right. I also mentioned that guns were "fun", he says that's how people get killed. I told him that was complete BS, I know the safety rules of gun handling and shooting. My brother has never handled or shot a gun a day in his life. He does not know what the hell he is talking about. An accident is always a remote possibility, but it is an EXTREMELY unlikely one. Then my brother asked me why I got a concealed carry permit in the first place. I told him, because crime happens at random and we live in dangerous times. Then my brother goes on a tangent about how guns should be taken out of society, by ELIMINATING the manufacture of all guns. I told him this was an ABSURD statement and its not possible. I told him that criminals will get guns no matter what, even if they have to import them illegally. Do criminals buy guns at FFL dealers or undergo background checks to purchase a gun? NO!!. Although I love my brother, he has the logic of typical liberals, I know whats best for you, you dont need to defend yourself, we are sheep to be herded by the master. I totally rejected his arguments, I tried to make my case, but he was so wound up in emotion and feeling, that I gave up. There was no factual basis in his arguments. I ended up telling him that having a reasonable debate was impossible, I just shut the door and left the room.

My brother also thinks that by carrying a concealed handgun, I place myself in more danger, not less. I disagree, he says the the criminal will just take my gun and shoot me with it. I made the point that if I'm under a vicious attack with no means of retreat, then my gun is a last ditch defensive measure, and if I pull it, then I've made the decision to fire.

My brother also went ballistic when he saw two books I recently read, one is "The Seven Myths of Gun Control" by Richard Poe and the other is "Armed Response" by David Kenik. He says I am reading "propoganda". I say he is the one spewing propoganda, not me. Everytime I tried to back up my feeling with a fact, I could not even get a word in. I got so frustrated I just gave up. He is my brother, and I love him, but he really pissed me off today. I dont tell him what he can and cannot have in his house, so who is he to tell me what I can and cant own?!!

One last point, my brother takes everything Micheal Moore says as gospel truth, he is hopeless!!! He refuses to read or watch anything that will contradict his feelings, talk about closed minded.

Bottom line, passionate liberals like my brother HATE the fact that I own guns and like guns. This gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, I'm NOT a member of the sheep society who takes everything our biased media says as gospel truth.
 
H

Hello123

New member
Your brother enjoys his delusion and enjoys aggravating you. Don't try to win him over by preaching, just through your example. What I mean is, use guns responsibly, have fun, and be level headed. That will speak volumes.
 
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Vanguard.45

New member
Like Freud said,

"The fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

Bottom Line- It's like Clint Eastwood said in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly":

"There are two kinds of people in this world- those with loaded guns, and those that dig. You? You dig."

Your brother is a sissy, and you can tell him I said so. After all, what's he gonna do? Beat me up? He'll get shot for tryin'!

Vanguard.45
 
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Null303

New member
Michael Moore is an NRA member and John sKerry was photographed skeet shooting. That should support the "guns are fun" argument.
 
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DnPRK

New member
Many liberals self identity is based on their self-perceived victim status. They believe their victimhood elevates them above the rest of us. They are victimized by their boss, the corporation they work for, the police, the phone company, white people, their auto mechanic, their next door neighbor, males, the guys in the football huddle, television evangelists with white shoes, their dry cleaner, Pepsico, the Boy Scouts, nuns, George Bush and the list goes on, and on and on...

The only joy they have in life is to wallow in their victimhood. They expect everyone around them to be a victim too (birds of a feather flock together...). You slapped your brother in the face when you showed him that you are not a victim. You destroyed his fragile world...you meanie you:p
 
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Rimrock

Moderator
I hate to upset the thinking here but the gun ignorance issue extends far beyond the old stereo type of liberals. I'm to the left of many here on many political issues but am a avid gun owner and gun defender. I'm surrounded geographically by upper crusty $$ conservatives who are absolutely against guns. There's nothing liberal about them. But they'd vote to take our guns in a high brow minute! ...and ya know something else...73% of those good Republican conservatives wives secretly are pro choice!
It's time to take another head count folks! More and more the issues are being defined in terms other than traditional lib v con.
I like to call it the educated and enlightened v the ignorant and close minded!
First thing I try to do when I meet a friend or relation with the latter attitude is take 'em shootin'. I've never had one ask for a refund yet!
We call 'em converts!:)

Rimrock
 
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Edison Carter

New member
Springfield, can you give some more background here?

I can't believe that you have 4 guns, and a CCW, and your brother is a flaming lib.... and just out of the blue this argument "just happened"...

I mean, come on.... that's like these stories where somebody claims a GLOCK just "went off" all by itself!

I have some relatives that I am not about to start discussing guns with, because I know the point would come where I'd say something obvious, harsh, and true.

Then I have some former friends who decided I was step-brother to Manson when they found out I bought my first gun..... Don't talk with them anymore.....

Come on, didn't you know your brother was .... "that way"?

EC
 
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PATH

New member
I'd like to think that a liberal who is anti-gun has not yet been mugged or beaten up for his/her money. I have a brother who has not touched a firearm since he got back from Vietnam. Not an anti but he does not want to touch one. That is fine by me.

My three other brothers and two of my four sisters are into guns. I like to olay the twilight zone theme for one of my sisters who is particularly anti. I am in the process of turning her son into a gun nut. His dad shoots a bit!:D

Don't let your brother get you angry. Let him get angry. If he loves you he'll acept you as you are. If not, tell him to go scratch with a jagged instrument.
 
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Lord_Nikon

New member
+1 to Rimrock.
We need to quit defining things as "liberal vs. conservative". It just doesn't work anymore in the real world.
 
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shooter429

Moderator
Maybe through your example

He will see that not every legal gun owner is a homicidal maniac or whatever other negative stereotype has been fed him by the media.

I had an experience in which someone started out as an anti (though not militant) and after a couple years of casual discussions, he began coming around. I was able to calmly demonstrate some positive aspects of gun ownership and the shooting sports. It started with a single question and then just showing him what guns and ammo look like. Then he wanted to hold it. Soon it was time to try one out (after proper training). Once he felt safe and the lead started flying there was no stopping him. Now, the guy is into guns and tactics and enjoys the heck out of it. I think he is a member in several RKBA associations.

Be patient and consistant and perhaps your brother will, someday, see your positive example and become an ally in arms.

Shooter429
 
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Baba Louie

New member
If he chooses to get "heated", allow him his passion. You, meanwhile, stay calm, cool, collected and logical... right? Or so it should be. What is right for him is obviously not your cup o tea (and vice versa).

You're a certified "good guy" with some training and some knowledge. And some personal, responsible power at your disposal. (Your CCW) Continue on that path.

He... feels. Emotes. Wishes to Control the actions of others(?) From a position of... ignorance (in that he chooses to ignore facts, not that he's not intelligent... about some things, perhaps) or starry-eyed, Ivory Towered, Utopian bliss (look where it got John Lennon). In this he is like my older sister, with the exception that she works for the Fed Gov't and KNOWS WHAT'S BEST FOR OTHERS. (I love getting her fired up once in awhile... I'm soooo bad)

History has shown, time and again, that the (almost) uniquely American RKBA for the average Joe Citizen keeps the odds closer to even when trouble comes calling. You know this. He, like others, seems to have forgotten this lesson.

You can choose your friends. Relatives? They just are. Invite him to go out shooting. Often.
 
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Maui19

New member
"We need to quit defining things as "liberal vs. conservative". It just doesn't work anymore in the real world."

I agree completely. I am socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. IMO, I am a moderate, like much of the country. Until recently, I had been stauchly anti-gun. But my wife and I had a discussion that showed both of us had been quietly thinking along the same lines for some time. We live in a somewhat rural area. If someone came to our door in the evening with bad intent, we would be sitting ducks. (I keep a baseball bat within quick reach of the front door, and like my chances against a single BG, but it would still be dicey). We actually had a couple occasions where strangers knocked on our door after dark. The Fed's poor response to Katrina and other natural and manmade disasters also gave us some cause for concern.

I remember bringing my first guns home from the store and laying them on the kitchen table, and thinking I had made a horrible mistake. But with a little training and practice, we both became comfortable (or comforted, actually) with guns in the house. Target practice is fun, too. So is lusting after new guns :p

I was surprised to learn how tough some of the gun laws are. I think some states are too tough, others are not tough enough, but in general it seems about right. When guns are handled responsibly (which they are about 99.5% of the time), there is no problem. I do think the one downside of guns is that all too often, they offer a permanent solution to a temporary problem, i.e. when a kid gets hold of a gun and kills himself or others in a moment of depression or rage. I suspect I'll get flamed for this opinion, but it's what I believe.

I like to compare owning/using guns to owning/using cars. Without proper training, either can be (and are) lethal. When used by the young, impaired or reckless, tragic consequences occur. When operated with respect and responsiblity, both are quite safe. I don't hear too many anti-car people spouting off these days. ;)

I think it is insulting to say that someone is a moron for having a particular point of view. Everyone's life experience is different. Everyone has their own take on things. That's just the way it is. All you can do is try to make sure everyone has all the facts at their disposal. Then it's up to them to draw their own conclusion.

To label someone, then insult them, is not a good way to get them on your side. If you want to get someone to change their mind, you need to acknowledge that their point of view has some validity, then work (gently) to correct any misperceptions they may have. It doesn't happen overnight, but you can be successful if you work at it.
 
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Scott Conklin

New member
Well, something that actually IS important here: The label. Rim touched it, but failed to elaborate. Your brother is not a "liberal". Rims neighbors are not "conservative". They are all Leftist. Socialist leaning, in other words. Seeking control by and protection of centralized authority in most or all things.

Us? Even, maybe, Rim? WE are Liberals. Classical Liberals. People who seek and support freedom in as many aspects as possible. Liberal, it was a respectable word, once. Then the Left compromised it in order to gain a little respectability. Now they are moving on to "progressive", having trashed liberal to death.

Get the label right, understand the difference between a leftist and a real liberal, and these issue-based distinctions actually make a lot more consistent sense.

As for your brother specifically? Point, laugh, do it every time you see him. Buy him a cheap used Volvo for Christmas. Point, laugh some more. Eventually, at least, he'll shaddup.
 
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MADISON

New member
Liberal brother, anti-gun and anti-self defense

Maybe he is so out of it that he CHOOSES TO BE A VICTON.
After one or more of the following happens to him, he will come arond:
[1] Beat half to death.
[2] His wife and or children raped and/or murdered.
[3] He is mugged, beat half to death and shot.
 
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DunedinDragon

New member
I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much. Just keep repeating the following phrase to him:

"A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged...."
 
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Rivers

Moderator
I find it a total waste of time to try to dialogue with folks like your brother; however, you might ask him how many murder victims would be worse off today, had they been armed at the time they were murdered?
 
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