My Insensitivity or Their Stupidity?

[Oscar]

Yes, that is the question. Check this out:

(CNSNews.com) - Everyone knows the human toll of the Sept. 11 terror attack in New York. Animal welfare groups now intend to assess the impact on rescue dogs who sniffed for survivors at the World Trade Center in the aftermath of the atrocity. Wire reports said the American Kennel Club's Canine Health Foundation and the Ralston Purina Co. are paying for a $100,000 three-year study to examine physical and psychological problems suffered by search dogs at ground zero. The University of Pennsylvania veterinarian who will lead the study suspects rescue dogs were demoralized by their inability to find survivors. Cynthia Otto is quoted as saying the dogs "were working 12-hour shifts - their training is not geared to this kind of duration and intensity."

I can't bare to contemplate how demoralized those dogs must be upon the self-realization of their shortcomings. And where are the tears for all the vermin and insects that must have perished on September 11th? Sorry. I guess I'm just one more insensitive redneck jerk. :barf:

 

[pax]

No matter how silly the motivation, the study will help them figure out how to improve training methods for rescue dogs, and that will eventually result in human lives being saved. That's a Good Thing in my book.

pax

Ever notice how those who claim to believe in animal rights generally don't believe in human rights? -- Raymond Louis Drake-Tealy

 

[DAVID NANCARROW]

Does this mean that because I occasionally fake the throw with the fetch stick that my dog will be mentally damaged for life? Does this mean that bird dogs who do not get the chance to point on every outing suicidal?
C'mon already. My brother was a scout dog handler for 3 years in the Army, but that doesn't mean that the dog needed a couch because it didn't get a whiff of a claymore mine or booby trap every day.
The mutt I have now senses whenever my wife or I feel bad, and tends to hang around-don't know what you call that behavior and don't care. I just know that it is and that for whatever reason he seems to care. I can't imagine the handlers in that hell hole NOT feeling more than a bit overwhelmed, which could well be picked up by the dog.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Given that I hold most dogs in MUCH higher regard that most of the people whom I know, I'd say I'm fine with that.

 

[griz]

As funny as it sounds it is apparently a real problem. The dogs were trained with the idea of finding single victims or maybe a few. When they keep finding bodies instead of survivors the dogs start easing up so as not to find more death. They said after the Oklahoma City bombing they would plant volunteer "survivors" to improve the dog’s morale. I know it sounds funny to speak of the dog’s morale but effectively they were working on the dog’s performance, which is a life and death concern.

 

[FPrice]

I have to agree with pax, Mike, and griz. At least, I what I think Mike is saying. <G>

This is far beyond the scope of virtually all disasters we have seen in this country. Whether it comes from the handlers' mental condition impacting the dogs, or actual mental and physical stress upon the animal itself, I think that a better understanding of how dogs react under extended adverse conditions may help in the future. It may sound silly and touchy-feely, but the potential benefits may help save lives in the future.

 

[DAVID NANCARROW]

who would have thought it?

 

[FLM]

Mike, I'm with you. I like all of the dogs I know. I sure can't say that about all the people I know. I'm OK with that study.

 

[Mike Irwin]

FLM,

I can't say that I like all of the dogs that I know.

But, usually, the nature of the dog is a reflection on the nature of the owner.

Chances are very good that if I don't like the dog, I can't stand the owner.

 

[KAM_Indianapolis]

Put it this way, if the dogs don't find survivors, they might stop trying to find survivors. I was amazed that they have search and rescue dogs, and cadaver dogs. Two different methods of training. Different smells basically.

Our canine compatriots should be taken care of. They could be the one's sniffing you out of the next disaster. The next tornado, earthquake, avalanche, or bomb attack. You don't want the dog to get hopeless, or whatever it is that makes them stop.

And while it may sound silly at first, I have high regard for the animals and their handlers.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Keith, and others, thanks for the insight. At first glance this seemed ridiculous, but after thinking about my own dog's behavior it does make some sense.

But, how do you give a dog psychological examination? Are there miniature couches readily available? Do the shrinks use Freudian psychology or Gestalt therapy? What about Prozac?

When my own dog seems down in the dumps, I take him on my lap, give him some scratches behind the ears and a couple of biscuits. Perhaps there's a future for me in dog psychology.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Animal psychologists don't look at just the animal, they look at the animal's interaction with its human companions.

 

[dwesson445]

At the risk of appearing overly sentimental, it's threads like this that remind you how blessed we are to have dogs... All they ever want is food, fresh water, and someone to be with them...

I miss having a dog.

 

[Oscar]

I forgot to include one other possibility in my initial question: My stupidity. Again, my membership and visits to TFL have served to educate me. Thanks.

 

[Danger Dave]

Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to be just a matter of their training. It seems that the dogs want to find living, breathing humans. When they find corpse after corpse, they get lethargic, even after they leave the scene, and then they don't seem to want to return. They seem to suffer from some form of depression which interferes with their ability to do their job.

It's sad, really. I think it just shows that they really are our best friend. I've heard of many cases of dogs dying to save people they cared about, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that dogs may have feelings similar to our own.

 

[Dennis]

If I had heard of "doggy depression" anywhere else, I would have accused the psychologists of doggydom to be mere dippers into taxpayer coffers. So I've learned to apply something I already knew - dogs, in some ways, are more human(e) than are we.

Thanks, folks.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Dave,

The dogs are greatly praised and rewarded when they find a living person. They know that if they find a living person they've done what their human expects of them.

When they can't fulfill what is expected of them, it affects them, just as it would a human.

When you get right down to it, I'm FIRMLY of the belief that dogs, and most of the higher mammals, for that matter, are a LOT closer to humans in many ways that most humans are either aware or willing to admit.

That realization is one of the reasons why I, personally, have given up hunting. I won't interfere with anyone else's right to hunt, or their participation in hunting, but I choose to no longer hunt.

 

[xxena]

My son in law is with a First Responders Group up in the wooded boonies of very Northern MN - their rescue dogs do suffer greatly when they cannot find what they are looking for.

They train the dogs (different groups) to find live people and bodies...the dogs trained for the living seem to suffer just like people do when they are not successful. Granted they do not have the so -called intelligence that we do as humans but dogs being social pack animals have to please and when trained for jobs like this - if they don't find someone alive in their little doggie minds they have failed their humans.

It is not all that far fetched.

I do think some of these animal welfare groups are living on the fringes of the ozone out there and are not at all in touch with reality....but the research into how to better train and use these dogs is well worth it. Their senses are so superior to our own they can be utilized in a multitude of ways.

 

[longeyes]

Mike, et al.

Sometimes I think dogs were domesticated in order for man to express his better self. Dogs were essential in helping mankind evolve. We could use more of their loyalty and caring in our humankind. Perhaps it's time for another "cross-breeding" project?

 

[d`leasha]

It always aggravates me when the fringe elements of any "movement" attempt to, and with the media's eager assistance do, define an issue. In fact, it p*sses me off no end when the animal-rights nuts cause people to think that all or even most serious animal-rights proponents think more of animals than humans, or the environmental nuts cause people to think that all or even most environmentalists think more of trees than humans, or when the women's rights nuts cause people to think that all or even most women's-rights proponents think more of women than men, etc. ad nauseum.

Thank you all for this thread; you've proven what i would have expected to be the case about people in this group, which is that people who care passionately about personal freedoms such as the right to carry and bear arms are also open-minded and willing to listen and learn as well as teach.

I like to think that this is at least partly attributable to the ability to see the forest AND the trees *grin*. (couldn't resist a little environmental humor -- and that ability to see the forest AND the trees happens to be my own personal definition of higher intelligence!)