My beef with the phrase "once fired brass"

[briandg]

Marco, maybe you need to think about the post that you quoted and argued so strongly against.

Since the 38 and .357 revolvers have become more popular as carry pieces, I suspect that an increasing number of people are walking away leaving a box or two of brass that is almost certainly once fired. If it's factory reloaded, like 3d, it's going to be quite obvious.

more popular in this case, at least in my use, means that the popularity has increased. If I had said "more popular than any other handgun" that would have been a foolish statement. If I had said "the most popular form of handgun" it would also have been wrong.

But, "more popular" without a qualifier such as "more popular than the other" means nothing of the sort.

The revolver is more popular now than the revolver has been in the recent decades.

 

[std7mag]

I only have once fired brass once. After my first shooting.
I have no clue how many times my 45ACP, 9mm Luger brass has been reloaded.

7mm Rem Mag usually lasts me 5-6 reloads before hitting the scrap bucket.
7mm-08, 257 Roberts (necked down 7X57 brass), 243Win, 308, 30-06, 284 Win i've loaded at least 10 times with no issues.

 

[Gary Wells]

I have about 2K .45 auto cases, mostly R-P nickel +P but not all. 500 Federal brass cases from the Federal Gold medal match, about 200 Wilson brass, all .45 auto, all once fired, all in original plastic seperators & original boxes. All fired by me in one of my .45 autos or a friends gun.

 

[Grey_Lion]

The only time I have reason to suspect a piece of brass is a reload is when I come across 9mm winchester brass shells with a chrome primer in them. In my experience, the only time Winchester uses a nickel plated pistol primer is in nickel plated casing. Otherwise - I've seen nothing but mix & match and wouldn't hazard a guess on what's a reload and what isn't.

At the end of the day as has been mentioned by many others within this thread - if the case cleans up well, my process has me handling it 5 to 7 times through clean, priming, and reloading - that case will get used.

In the last 5 years, I remember rejecting one case while I was seating the primer, and I've had one blazer case split whilst seating the bullet. Other than that, I've caught the rejects early on during sorting & cleaning. Might be luck - but I believe in my process and it's done pretty well for me.

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

I like watching for the guys that come to the range with a couple of AR's, a camera, and a case of new ammo. I watch them cut the tape on a box of Federal American Eagle or something like that. Once in a while I get lucky and they shoot a case of Black Hills (Cased in new LC cases, and primers are not crimped.) In a short time There will be a huge pile of brass left when they leave. I will clean it up for them.

Yesterday I picked up what I knew to be true once fired Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass. A guy had just bought the rifle, and had 5 boxes of new ammo from Cabela's. I loaned him my pocket knife to cut the seals on the boxes. He gave me all the brass. He said he will never reload as he can afford to buy new ammo. I saw the receipt for the ammo in the bag too. I also scored 20 Federal cases of the same caliber as he had a box of Federal Gold Medal Match that he fired as well. (That brass is not for sale.)

Once or twice a year I tend to sell some of my extra range pick up brass. I do not make claims that it is "once fired" I let it be know that it is range pick up. I clean it, sort it, and cull out any that I would not run through my own dies, or guns.

 

[McCarthy]

I don't waste my time with mediocre brass anymore. No range brass or once fired for me. I buy all my cases from Starline, load them, mark them, and only pick up my brass. The inconsistency I got from different headstamps, hot shot cases, primer crimped brass an whatnot was a real turn off in both accuracy and smooth reloading on my Dillons.

For the longest time I thought freebie range brass was the hit. Not anymore. Nothing over a fresh batch of Starline quality brass.

 

[Mike38]

If you were in the market to buy previously fired brass, would you buy some listed as "Once fired" over "multiple fired" or "unknown fired" or "five times fired"? The phrase "Once fired" can mean a lot. It means, fired once. I would trust it over any other of these descriptions.

You can tell by looking at semi auto pistol brass if it's been loaded multiple times. Extractor marks, scratches, etc. are a give-a-way. No matter how clean and how well tumbled, extractor marks are your clue.

I have not bought 9mm or .45acp brass in 20+ years. I pick up once fired at the range and haven't had a problem one. I did recently buy 1000 pcs of .32 S&WL once fired brass, because I'm the only person that shoots it at the range I'm a member of.

 

[briandg]

what calibers do you shoot and how many rounds to you go through in a year?

 

[44 AMP]

What is the lifespan of brass - how many firings before there is a failure with powder loads within manufacturer spec.

this one is easy!!!

One more firing than the number of reloads!!

If you are selling once fired brass, as once fired brass, then you have an ethical responsibility to ensure it IS once fired brass. Otherwise, you are deliberately committing fraud!!
If you sell it as "fired brass", "used brass" or "range pick up" and do NOT claim it to be once fired (even if it is) then you're being honest.

If you are picking up brass off the range for FREE, and its not once fired, STOP WHINING!!! its FREE...

A lot of us are, or were brass rats. I was, and I don't mind that. What I dislike is brass vultures! I have, on (rare) occasion had people "scrounging" MY BRASS while I was still shooting...I have heard there are ranges that claim your fired brass is their property once it hits the ground. I WILL NOT use such a range.

Sometimes, the brass vultures outsmart themselves. A friend told me of one time where this happened (with a "little help")…
The vulture hung out at watering hole, where he could overhear where/when people planning to go shoot. Then, he would zoom in almost before the dust from the shooters leaving had settled. Many people knew he did this. A couple of them made plans to shoot some Garands, knowing the vulture was listening.
They went out to a local spot, and shot up a bunch of berdan primed milsurp brass (about 500 rnds), and finished with one box (20) of reloads made using National Match cases (which were on their last reload). They leave, the vulture dives on his prey....picks up a National Match case, and scoops up the whole lot, thinking he has hit the jackpot.

The next day, the vulture is in the gunshop, whining and bitching about a "bad batch" of National match brass, that had broken all his decapping pins, and he needed to buy more!....

 

[kmw1954]

My response to Mike38 and briandg,

When I first got back into shooting again my 1st gun was a 9mm and because I had done this before I knew I would be getting a press and reloading. Like then and also when I later purchased a 380 and then a 45acp I knew I would be needing brass, more than just a couple boxes of 100. So I was able to find a local guy selling brass. It was advertised as range brass from an indoor range. Knowing that this was indoor brass I was confident it was pretty clean and not full of mud and rocks. As my 1st order was for 9mm I was also pretty confident that most would be once fired as this stuff is plentiful and not everyone reloads.

My first purchase was for 3000 9mm that was already sorted and tumbled and I paid just 2 cents a pcs. for it. As it turned out this was all very nice stuff. I then found another seller close by that had 380 brass amd I ordered 1k and I believe I paid 4 cents. Then when I got the 45acp I went back to the first seller and got 2k for $88.00 including shipping and that too was already sorted and tumbled and all large primer brass.

Now that I am established with brass that I use I seriously doubt I will be buying more. As some have expressed, they have qualms about picking up brass, which is fine. Just leaves more for me and others.

 

[AK Man]

I have noticed that people selling brass have added the the phrase "At Least" to the once fired brass. Because they really don't know how many times it has been fired.

 

[Grey_Lion]

what calibers do you shoot and how many rounds to you go through in a year?

I fire only .40 S&W at present. Appx 3000 to 5000 rounds a year. I fire both pistol and carbine.

But when I'm at the range - I'll collect any brass I'm allowed and I buy the occasional bucket of range brass.

I will use what I consider trash 9mm brass to make my own JHP out of having gotten into swaging this last year.

I've given some 6000 cleaned and sorted 9mm to my brother in law with the progressive press I bought him for his birthday last year.

This has left me with thousands of pieces of assorted brass. I've cleaned and traded most of the .45 I've come across. That always goes pretty quick.

I've got a handful of sig .357 - several 1000 cleaned & sorted 9mm luger, then a bunch of odds and ends.

I hold on to the 300 blackout and .308 as I haven't yet decided on what rifle to get. And I'm holding on to the .223 brass in case I go 300 blackout - to cut and shape.

And lastly, I'm also considering a .45-70 Marlin lever action - but I've not come across any brass.

 

[briandg]

I don't know if I mentioned it or if it was mentioned before, 9mm is almost always going to be fired and dumped from new boxes, at least at any indoor range, or at many other smaller ranges that are too busy for people to scavenge, or frequented by the right kind of people.

I don't believe that I have ever picked up a case that was an abandoned reload in the last few years other than my own at the range where I shoot. I never see anyone there with loose ammo in cans or bags, and every time I go there the barrels are filled with boxes, most of it the bulk boxes from the big three.

It's a fifty foot range and another that's 100 feet without a bench. Most of the shooting is done from twenty five feet or less! somebody, probably the owner comes down and sweeps it clean once in a while. When I go, the smartest thing to do is abandon the stuff that I shot up by the bench and go out to the twenty foot piles. Let the guy with the broom pick up my abandoned brass, the stuff out there is always what looks like it was used one time. When you see 500 rounds of the same darned thing, and there are bulk boxes for a thousand in the trash, hey, you can bet your dollar that it's all fresh.

Once I collected a satchel full of brass, a trainer had gone through thousands of rounds. Turned out that about half of the stuff was brand new aquila or euro stuff.

Am I the only one who is at least a little embarrassed to be seen collecting the stuff? Granted, I feel self conscious about everything.

 

[briandg]

44, that was a great story. but you are such a naughty boy!

A lot of us are, or were brass rats. I was, and I don't mind that. What I dislike is brass vultures! I have, on (rare) occasion had people "scrounging" MY BRASS while I was still shooting.

A guy was shooting .45 next to me, I was shooting my 9 mm. His brass was flying all over, landing all over my bay. I was picking my brass up and as I did I collected his. As a favor.Oh, boy, he gave me the nastiest look and was about to come bounce all over me. I had a full hand of his by then and said "here, this is yours." I changed bays after that.

Am I the only person in the united states that would collect the other guy's brass for him as a favor?

 

[Nick_C_S]

Am I the only person in the united states that would collect the other guy's brass for him as a favor?

Yes. Heh, just kidding of course. Sometimes I'm done shooting for the inning while the range is still hot; and I'll sweep and gather up another's brass into one small spot - just to make busy work. They usually appreciate it. What can make it particularly amusing is that I'm usually shooting a revolver.

 

[44 AMP]

Am I the only person in the united states that would collect the other guy's brass for him as a favor?

You're not, but we seem to be getting fewer and fewer...


Another thing I like to do is take my 42 Walther P.38 with me to the range, that way, when the guy to my LEFT pelts me with his brass, I can pelt him back!

(for those who don't know, and I didn't until I got one, the P.38 ejects to the left!!)

No idea why its the opposite of virtually every other semi in the world, other than some German designer thought it was a good idea...

I shoot some unusual guns, .44 Auto Mag, .45 Win Mag, and some others. Often there are people on the range who will pick up my brass while I am shooting, and set it on my bench. I always thank them.

Back to once fired brass, if you're looking for a quantity of once fired .45-70 brass, good luck. You MIGHT find a box at a show, here or there, but generally its not a caliber people shoot and leave the empties behind.

I learned not to buy "once fired" .303 British, one batch I got had a full head separation on my first firing. SO, for that caliber, I bought enough new brass to meet my needs.

there was a couple years when I was on the prowl for once fired .32ACP brass. Never found even a full box worth at the shows, and didn't want to shell out for new virgin brass.

Then, one show, a dealer had around 2k in 500count bags. Price was good, I bought one. Then I had to find 10 of the itty bitty boxes to keep it in!
That was almost harder than finding the brass....

(and don't tell me I should have just ordered online, that wasn't possible, then...)

 

[GWS]

At my range we have one community police dept. who uses it for target practice and/or qualification shoots using dept. supplied new fodder. Don't know exactly when it occurs, but I've been lucky enough on occasion to happen upon the aftermath the next morning! 10 to 20 brand new but empty boxes of 50 count Winchester .40 or 9mm in the trash can......and the spent brass from them lying on the firing line....pretty obviously once fired. Happy lucky days! Public servants at their best! I don't mind one bit cleaning up after them!

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

44amp .32 Auto brass is hard to fine once fired. (Try finding it on the ground.) I never try to sell range pick up as once fired. My wife's gun seems to make the brass evaporate. If she fires 100 rounds if I am lucky I will find maybe 20 if I get lucky. Also I do not reload 9mm Mak for that same reason.

For handguns I stick to common calibers for the purpose of being able to pick up brass at the range. I always manage to get a quart or gallon size bag of brass when I go to the range. Once I sort it I clean it up. Any that I do not use or load for I take to the range manager as a thank you. He reloads himself. Any he does not use he trades for what he does.

Once or twice a year I sell of extra .223 brass that I have cleaned, and sorted if I am needing cash to get equipment.

 

[kmw1954]

On another forum that I am a member about a year ago they started a sticky thread for "Brass Swap". The way they work it is to post what you have to trade or what you are looking for and then the actual deals are done thru PM's. Seem to be working very well.

At some point when I get enough to make it worth while I will offer up the stuff I'll never use.

m&p45 I have a Witness 380 that throws it over my head and behind me and like you I lose at least 1/2 of it.

 

[FrankenMauser]

.32 Auto and .380 Auto are high loss cartridges for me.
For the .380, I never plan on recovering more than 50%. In gravel, recovery is around 80%. In grass, it's about 30%. On concrete, it can be 90%(+). I have never had 100% recovery, even with tarps laid out or a net set up to catch brass. Why it disappears where 9mm doesn't, even though they're nearly the same size, is beyond me...
Overall, I lose more while shooting than I find when scrounging, but other people give me enough to keep the stash fairly stable.

The .32s, though... Even though I shoot very little of it, a really good day will only have a 50% recovery rate. The best I've ever done (excluding revolvers) was finding 8 of 12 (75%!) after firing two six-round magazines through the Chinese "Mauser" -- and I think that was only because there were three to five people watching the pistol and the brass, and the area was hard-packed, dark mud. (But we still lost four!)

On the up side... I have never paid or traded for .32 Auto brass or ammo. I've found enough over the years, been given enough ("once"-fired), and been gifted enough factory ammo that there has been no need to buy any. (Being a low volume cartridge for me certainly helps.)


I'd hate to have a .25 Auto -- because I would insist on reloading for it. I think I'd have to assume a 100% loss rate for brass, and just be happy if I found anything.
I do, however, find far more .25 Auto at the range than .32 Auto. It's rare, but still there in quantities three to four times that of .32 Auto.