My bad it was Germany

LanceOregon

Moderator
Seriously? You want to use a press release issued by McCain as proof that McCain isn't lying?

We all know that McCain is an honorable man who does not engage in things like mud-slinging. This is a genuine issue, and it is being hotly debated in the press currently. It is certainly getting major press coverage, you cannot deny that.

Did you know that Obama canceled his visit to the hospital only a few hours before he was to appear??

Why would working out at the gym be more important to him than consoling our wounded troops, and trying to lift their spirits??

That really speaks a lot about the kind of man that Obama really is.

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Unregistered

Moderator
In very sharp contrast to Obama's behavior, President Bush has visited a great many wounded American troops.

Well seeing as how Bush made the decision to go to war, thats the least he could do. Bush could have gone to war after the troops were better prepared and equipped. This would have resulted in fewer American casualties, and fewer injured soldiers for the president to visit. I feel sorry for your wounded friend. He has made a great sacrifice for his country and the President.

Can you imagine how bad all of these poor, unfortunate wounded soldiers at Landstuhl hospital felt, when they learned Obama had abandoned them??

LOL, no I can't imagine that anyone felt bad for not being visited by Obama. I would not want to meet with Obama, whether I was wounded or not.
 

nate45

New member
Can you imagine how bad all of these poor, unfortunate wounded soldiers at Landstuhl hospital felt, when they learned Obama had abandoned them??

I appreciate bashing B.Hussein Obama, but come on I can't imagine any wounded troops being disappointed that a one term Senator with no political accomplishments and no military experience,knowledge or service didn't come pandering for publicity.:p
 

Citizen Carrier

New member
Believe it or not, there might be some soldiers who might like to meet America's first black presidential nominee. Not many from my unit seem all that eager to vote for him, but they might like to meet him.

I'm not going to vote for him, but he is a celebrity of sorts. And coming into contact with him would be a personal brush with a historical figure.

Is there anybody here who if given a choice between spending an hour or two among wounded veterans or an hour on a treadmill in a gym would actually choose the gym?

I wouldn't call it a mistake. I'd call it an accidental episode in which the man's real quality showed through.
 
Wait one minute, you are going to start potraying Bush in a positive light for a few stateside visits to wounded troops. The same man who seldom even attends the state funerals of fallen soldiers and only started attended them occasionally after being roasted by the press for being the first President to not attend them.
 

Leif

New member
With all the major issues to worry about the world and the election, this one strikes me as a very small potato by comparison.

We all know that McCain is an honorable man who does not engage in things like mud-slinging.

That's just funny, no matter how you look at it or where you stand on the election. I guess somebody doesn't watch any McCain commercials or advertising at all.
 

zukiphile

New member
With all the major issues to worry about the world and the election, this one strikes me as a very small potato by comparison.

In itself, I agree.

The behavior of the Clintons toward people who serve has bought subsequent candidates' attitudes closer examination.
 

Kreyzhorse

New member
Why would working out at the gym be more important to him than consoling our wounded troops, and trying to lift their spirits??

That really speaks a lot about the kind of man that Obama really is.


Ummmm, he wasn't "working out at the gym." If you look closely and do some research, he was actually meeting US troops at a gym.

To say Obama was "working out at the gym" isn't a complete lie, but when he was actually meeting US troops and playing ball with them it is certainly a mis-truth and pretty far from just "working out at the gym."

We all know that McCain is an honorable man who does not engage in things like mud-slinging.

I'd agree with you had this been the year 2000. The 2008 McCain may spout that nonsense but he certainly doesn't walk it. If you refuse to openly look at the issues with an open mind, you certainly won't allow the facts to get in the way of your "truth."

I guess my point to this whole thing is that in recent memory I'd like to see a candidate win or lose based on his merits or ideas or lack therefore of them. I'm tired of politics being aimed at the lowest common demoninator while using smear tactics to discredit the opposing party. Again this election will be won by the uneducated voter who's opinions are formed from 30 second smear commericals rather than research and an understanding of the actual issues. For example, for any one to say that McCain supports the troops clearly they haven't looked at his voting records of late.

While I may seem to be slamming McCain on this post, I am not an Obama supporter and he will certainly not get my vote. I am after all, a bitter middle American clinging to my guns. Because I won't vote for Obama doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see an honest campaign however.
 
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LanceOregon

Moderator
Wait one minute, you are going to start portraying Bush in a positive light for a few stateside visits to wounded troops. The same man who seldom even attends the state funerals of fallen soldiers and only started attended them occasionally after being roasted by the press for being the first President to not attend them

Once again Playboy, you attack without providing one single shred of evidence to back up your claim and illustrate that it is really true. All you do is simply repeat nothing more than left-wing blogger slanders against Bush. Anyone here can do an internet search on this subject, and you will see that this story is being spread all across the left-wing blogsphere. Clearly, those must be the sort of "credible" sources that Playboy gets his information from.

Just name one single instance where Bush failed to attend a "state funeral" for a fallen soldier that Democratic leaders attended. Provide some sort of semblance of factual information to your charges.

The truth is that Bush got no press or publicity for visiting any of the soldiers at Walter Reed Hospital that day my friend met him. My friend Mike told me that all President Bush and the First Lady had with them that day was a small contingent of secret service men when they were at the hospital. Bush did not go to the Hospital that day to try to raise his poll numbers.

The only person here who comes across as engaging in political mud-slinging is yourself. Your new remarks about Bush could not be more hypocritical in nature.

You complain about so called mud-slinging against Obama, when the subject is an issue being actively debated in the current Presidential campaign and getting significant press coverage. Yet you have absolutely no problem at all in yourself smearing Bush with most extremely unfair and misleading remarks that are only being spread on the Internet by Bush bashers.

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gc70

New member
That's crap...he did not go because he was told it was not a good idea and would be inappropriate by the Pentagon. You do notice (or maybe you did not) that the Pentagon does not deny telling him this. They just said "we did not say he could not go."

That is really slicing and dicing the paraphrases of a news report. Instead of arguing over the reporter's words, how about looking at the words from Obama's written statement.

On Thursday, the day Obama gave an evening address to an estimated 200,000 people in Berlin, his campaign issued two written statements about the canceled trip to Ramstein Air Base and the military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. In the first, no mention was made of Pentagon misgivings, only that Obama "decided out of respect for these servicemen and women that it would be inappropriate to make a stop to visit troops at a U.S. military facility as part of a trip funded by the campaign."
 
..and in the second one? Are you choosing to ignore that one? And I hardly see how "out of respect" translates to "refuses to visit" in anyone's book.

He only made an issue out of the reasons after McCain chose to switch gears and attack him for not going after spend the week attacking him for going. The pentagon confirms they did express concerns so he is not being dishnest. the ones being dishonest are the ones making up stories without basis.

And by the way, thanks to everyone that loves to spread this type of crap for turning Obama into a persecuted martyr and victim of Rove like dirty politics which only serves to garner him sympathy and make the right look like a bunch of rabid mudslingers in the eyes of middle America. You are garnering him more votes every day. Great way to help the republican party. :rolleyes:
 

gc70

New member
..and in the second one? Are you choosing to ignore that one?

Yep, I am ignoring the second statement because the news report provided no quotes from the second statement, only the reporter's words.

Reuters
A second statement, by retired general and Obama adviser Scott Gration, mentioned the Pentagon's involvement.

I also could not find either of the two reported written statements on Obama's website, although this page does contain the following:

The Obama campaign originally planned a private trip (no media) to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany to visit wounded troops, but canceled it to prevent the perception of politicizing our troops.

Senator Obama was honored to meet with our men and women in uniform in Iraq and Afghanistan during his foreign trip and has visited a combat support hospital in Baghdad as well as wounded soldiers at Walter Reed without fanfare. Barack Obama also called wounded troops at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center while overseas.

The page also contains 3 videos and excepts from (and links to) several media reports.

And by the way, thanks to everyone that loves to spread this type of crap

It is difficult to know what something is until you actually examine it.
 

shortwave

New member
Fact is nobody told Obama that he could not visit the troops. The fact that Obama`s own people release the statement that he didn`t visit the troops cause it may be percieved as politicizing the troops shows that Obama and his people are more concerned about there political agenda than the troops themselves. Obamas actions showed where his heart is at and those actions are hard to defend.
 

jrfoxx

New member
The same man who seldom even attends the state funerals of fallen soldiers and only started attended them occasionally after being roasted by the press for being the first President to not attend them.
Now, I'm no Bush lover or apologist, so I'll admit that if true, it was certainly wrong of him if he had not gone to ANY funerals until there was a stink made about it, bit to fault him for only going o "some" of them is not really fair. I cant imagine ANY president in HISTORY has attended the funeral of ALL of the soldiers KIA during their administration, or has even gone a majority of them. For one, I ind it unlikely it would even be physically possible to attend all of them, and it really isn't reasonable to say he should go to most of them. With 4,000 killed, had he spent a large part of his day at every one of those funerals, or even a majority of them, there would be a HUGE outcry about him being gone all the time, and not getting things done, as too much time would be spent at funerals and with families, as opposed to taking care of the MASSIVE amount of things a president has to take care of daily. I'm pretty sure they have pretty full schedules, and while some things might be able to by ignored, or put off, many cant, or if they were, a lot of people are gonna be ticked that they got screwed, or would feel slighted, that he ignored, or put off doing something that affected them.


I guess my point to this whole thing is that in recent memory I'd like to see a candidate win or lose based on his merits or ideas or lack therefore of them. I'm tired of politics being aimed at the lowest common denominator while using smear tactics to discredit the opposing party. Again this election will be won by the uneducated voter who's opinions are formed from 30 second smear commercials rather than research and an understanding of the actual issues.
I agree 100%, but the problem is not ENTIRELY with the politicians. The voters share a fair bit of the blame for this too, some of it knowingly, some not. Sad as it is, a HUGE portion of the voting public doesn't really CARE about the actual issues, or at least not enough to pay attention to anything for longer than an Email or commercial.They want the info spoon fed to them, and in a sense, want to be TOLD who to vote for, so they aren't bothered by having to take any time to actually thinks, ready, study, compare, etc. They want it to be quick and simple, so the politicians really are often just giving them what those people want. Kinda hard to blame JUST the politicians for that.

Also, remember that the majority of the population has an IQ between 85 and 115, and lets face it, an IQ in that range is just not terribly bright, and then you have to factor in that most people are pretty poorly educated as most attended to seriously screwed up public schools for their education, which have been set up to accommodate those attending with the LOWEST of IQ's, who aren't officially "mentally challenged" enough to be in special classes, thus, even those near the top of the average at 115, were educated as if they had an IQ of more like 75, as that is what the school was designed to do, so as to not leave all those at the lower end behind.

Sadly, the vast majority of people in this country are just not very bright, and are poorly educated on top of it.Thus, the politicians do just what the schools did, and gear everything toward the lowest common denominator, because they ARE the majority of the voting public. If they geared everything toward those with good educations and 150+ IQ's, the outcry would be insane, the vast majority of voters would be disenfranchised, and would either just guess at who to vote for, or would be easily manipulated by those they believe are smarter and more educated, or even worse, would vote for a 3rd person that was willing to still cater to them, and is a WAY worse choice than the 2 who were being more "high brow", but since they are the majority, that crappy, wacko 3rd person is who would get the majority of votes, and thats who we'd be stuck with. Kucinich/Nader ticket anyone?

But, as I feel I am personally above the average in education and IQ, as I suspect a great many people on this forum are (due to our interest in thinking about, and discussing, and learning about law, politics, the constitution, our rights, etc, as opposed to being on the American Idol Forums), I agree with you that I wish our election campaigns did happen like they do, and seem to get worse every time, but I really don't know if it will ever get better. The best we may be able to hope for is that it just doesnt get much worse.
 

Kreyzhorse

New member
I agree 100%, but the problem is not ENTIRELY with the politicians. The voters share a fair bit of the blame for this too, some of it knowingly, some not. Sad as it is, a HUGE portion of the voting public doesn't really CARE about the actual issues, or at least not enough to pay attention to anything for longer than an Email or commercial.They want the info spoon fed to them, and in a sense, want to be TOLD who to vote for, so they aren't bothered by having to take any time to actually thinks, ready, study, compare, etc. They want it to be quick and simple, so the politicians really are often just giving them what those people want. Kinda hard to blame JUST the politicians for that.

You are correct. Both politicians and voters are to blame for this mess. If we stopped voting for people who ran smear campaigns that would be the end of them. However, we don't stop voting for them and smear campaigns work. Bush and Rove have proven that as well as countless others. American has proven they would rather get their info from the commericals and have a their decisions made for them rather than make them for themselves.

Global dimming at its finest.
 
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