seeker_two
New member
I've always wondered if it would be more effective to reverse the Mozambique Drill....one shot to the chest to anchor, then two to the head....
Thoughts?.....
Thoughts?.....
Mozambique with a .41 Magnum
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Deaf Smith
New member
seeker_two,
I've always wondered why not skip the formalities and just go for the head. That way, if it's a nutjob with a bullet resistant vest, well you bypass it automatically. Keep the chest shots only for when you have to hip shoot.
Always practice head shots if you use your sights. No two this, one that or whatever. Chest if hip/retention shooting.
Deaf
I've always wondered why not skip the formalities and just go for the head. That way, if it's a nutjob with a bullet resistant vest, well you bypass it automatically. Keep the chest shots only for when you have to hip shoot.
Always practice head shots if you use your sights. No two this, one that or whatever. Chest if hip/retention shooting.
Deaf
I knew a DEA agent back in the 1980s, that was one of their top dangerous mission men. A group of us were discussing the merits of 9mm vs .45/.40, etc. It was 1986-87 right around the time of the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. He said "It doesn't matter which one you use, if you shoot them three times in the head." 
Not very politically correct, but accurate in what the effect would be.
Most all of us think in terms of COM and rightly so, but when the chips are down and your adversary is 2 yards away, already holding his pistol in his hand...maybe going straight for the head is the thing to do. Its what we would do with our scoped rifle to stop a dangerous actor. I think that incorporating a close range, go for the CNS(their brain)/stop them right now drill into our training, sounds wise. I mean, I do already, but not intensively and a lot of my head shooting, in addition to the standard Mozambique, is placing precise, miss the hostage type shots.
So I'm definitely going to work on drawing and going straight for the head, tomorrow.
Not very politically correct, but accurate in what the effect would be. Most all of us think in terms of COM and rightly so, but when the chips are down and your adversary is 2 yards away, already holding his pistol in his hand...maybe going straight for the head is the thing to do. Its what we would do with our scoped rifle to stop a dangerous actor. I think that incorporating a close range, go for the CNS(their brain)/stop them right now drill into our training, sounds wise. I mean, I do already, but not intensively and a lot of my head shooting, in addition to the standard Mozambique, is placing precise, miss the hostage type shots.
So I'm definitely going to work on drawing and going straight for the head, tomorrow.
That's not actually true. Jim Cirillo was fond of telling the story of two of his teammates, who were on their way into a stakeout when they got mugged. When the dust settled, each of them had emptied their revolvers -- 6 shot and 5 shot, respectively -- into the bad guy at bad breath distance. All 11 rounds of .38 spl lodged in the suspect's head or neck.
The man was unconscious and looked dead. One of the officers stood over the body and radio'd in a description: "Suspect is a black male, appears to be, uh, uh, 32 years old --" Just then, the 'dead' guy sat up and said, "Sh-- man, I'm only 25!"
Then he asked for a handkerchief, because he had "something" in his nose. When he blew his nose, a bullet plopped out onto the sidewalk.
He walked to the ambulance.
There are no guarantees in a gunfight. Zero, none, nada. There are things you can do to improve your odds and things you can do to make your odds worse. But if you go into it thinking, "This is how it's going to be..." you're likely to get bitten by something you never expected.
No magic bullets. No magic guns. No magic shot placements. Just some that work better than others, most of the time.
pax
Sage advice pax
I started to write in about the flesh and bone I've seen mangled by magnum projectiles and how deep and well they penetrate. How they are much more potent than the Lead Roundnose .38's the NYPD once used. Then I remembered the man I saw before with my own eyes, who got shot in the face with a .44 Magnum LSWC and kept going. His face looked just like the way you'd imagine/or have actually seen before, from being shot by a large caliber handgun, yet he kept going and survived.
Warning Image below is graphic
The man above, not the one I mentioned, but another, looks like he should be dead, but there he sits, big as life. He could still pull a trigger.
So yes...
pax said:
I started to write in about the flesh and bone I've seen mangled by magnum projectiles and how deep and well they penetrate. How they are much more potent than the Lead Roundnose .38's the NYPD once used. Then I remembered the man I saw before with my own eyes, who got shot in the face with a .44 Magnum LSWC and kept going. His face looked just like the way you'd imagine/or have actually seen before, from being shot by a large caliber handgun, yet he kept going and survived.
Warning Image below is graphic
The man above, not the one I mentioned, but another, looks like he should be dead, but there he sits, big as life. He could still pull a trigger.
So yes...
pax said:
Grim_Reaper
New member
So, is "Grand Master" a term you give yourself or is it bestowd upon you???
Grand Master is sort of like Grim_Reaper, only its based on actual accomplishments and not just imagination. Sorry, couldn't resist.
Actually it is a rank within combat shooting and other martial arts.
A few videos of Grand Masters in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A28y0zaPWx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd_oMiDb-Ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUDJ38mrVTo
Sorry, couldn't resist. Actually it is a rank within combat shooting and other martial arts.
A few videos of Grand Masters in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A28y0zaPWx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd_oMiDb-Ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUDJ38mrVTo
Grim_Reaper
New member
So, you gave it to your self!
Grim_Reaper said:
No, you earn the title Grand Master by performance, not because you say you are one.
SKILL LEVELS
IPSC shooter skill classes, from lowest to highest, are: D, C, B, A, Master, Grandmaster
Skill is determined by shooting at least four of eight predesigned stages and submitting your scores to USPSA. You
may move up in rank by winning matches, or as determined by USPSA in comparison to other shooters in your rank.
http://www.rrmemphis.com/op015.html
Its like being a black belt in martial arts, the other black belts tell you when you are a black belt.
I'm just a regular guy who happened to be a natural born killer and who practiced for 30+ years. Ever since I was little I wanted to be a LEO, soldier, mafia enforcer, samurai, etc. So like the old joke, "How do you get to Carnigie Hall?" " "Practice, practice, practice".
This is the internets though, if you don't think I can really draw a 1911 and shoot 7-9 times on target in +/- 2 seconds, thats your business. I don't care either, these threads aren't about individuals per se, they are about ideas and input from multiple sources. With the goal being the edification of all.
I ran across the video below on youtube a few minutes ago.
Bob Vogel: The Mozambique Drill
.93 seconds
Taran Butler in .63 Seconds!!!!!
Three shots from low ready.
Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't see what's so amazing about the times I said I was getting with the Model 58. I use full power loads in my revolvers and semi-autos, so that slows me down a little. Plus my holsters are all practical carry. If I use a special ISPC/IDPA rig and minimum allowed power ammo, my times go down. Anyone familiar with IDPA/ISPC shooting should know how fast some people are.
Also, why is it considered bragging, etc just merely relating facts? First this is pseudonymous with screen names, so I'm not glorifying myself. Second, the people who do know me IRL know its true. So, I don't see why talking about me is wrong, when its all true.
At the very least, the times I'm posting are slower than what guys like Taran Butler, Blake Miguez, Todd Jarret, Rob Latham, etc are shooting. So even if I am lying about my prowess, its still with in the bounds of reality. If you the reader, whomever you may be, are way, way slower, but have never competed and previously thought you were a good quick pistolero...well guess what, you aren't.
Bob Vogel: The Mozambique Drill
.93 seconds
Taran Butler in .63 Seconds!!!!!
Three shots from low ready.
Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't see what's so amazing about the times I said I was getting with the Model 58. I use full power loads in my revolvers and semi-autos, so that slows me down a little. Plus my holsters are all practical carry. If I use a special ISPC/IDPA rig and minimum allowed power ammo, my times go down. Anyone familiar with IDPA/ISPC shooting should know how fast some people are.
Also, why is it considered bragging, etc just merely relating facts? First this is pseudonymous with screen names, so I'm not glorifying myself. Second, the people who do know me IRL know its true. So, I don't see why talking about me is wrong, when its all true.
At the very least, the times I'm posting are slower than what guys like Taran Butler, Blake Miguez, Todd Jarret, Rob Latham, etc are shooting. So even if I am lying about my prowess, its still with in the bounds of reality. If you the reader, whomever you may be, are way, way slower, but have never competed and previously thought you were a good quick pistolero...well guess what, you aren't.
Hey now don't hate on us slow folks......
I have really enjoyed the talk here especially about the 41. I have had one in my stable for quite some time and shoot mostly near top end loads. I don't know what I would do in a SD situation as far as time goes, but if pressed into it, I don't think I would miss my target.
I had a friend who used the 41 on patrol when they came out. One of you might have even known him by his handle "Gowge". He was a great fellow with a ton of knowledge not only with firearms but life in general. He filled me in on plenty of his experiences with his while on duty, as well as that of others he knew. For those who could handle the full end loads it was a formidable proposition.
Anyway, speaking of the Win ST's I never really got much of a fuzzy feeling for them. They simply didn't deliver what I thought they should have. In several instances they simple failed to expand at all. On the other hand the 170gr Remington SJHP worked and worked well every time. I never recovered any of them that weren't rolled back nearly to the base. That said I use my handguns for hunting. I practice plenty and I shoot to put meat on the table. My preferred quarry is feral hogs and the 41 fills the bill well. Put into action against a BG I don't think they would enjoy the resulting situation.
My most carried load has been the Rem 200gr SJHP, loaded over 20.5grs of 296, do to being able to keep a decent velocity of around 1300fps from my 7.5" Redhawk, with plenty of down range energy, but still mild enough for rapid controlled fire on target. Nothing in the realm of what you folks are talking but good enough for fast moving hogs in the brush.
I'll go away now and let you speedsters continue on. You have my admiration for your dedication and practice. I wished I could get out more and work back up to where I used to be, life has a way of getting in the way of things ou like to do. I'm working on it though as well as bringing the wife along with me.
Take care
Mike/Tx said:
No hate here, in fact the total noob with their first pistol and no experience, is who I care about most. The world is a strange place, its rare that the UFC fighter, or the pistol Grand Master gets attacked, just by virtue of their small demographics. Its usually the elderly man, the soccer mom, etc, etc that end up being the ones facing the IRL deadly encounter.
They don't have to become IDPA champions to impress me. Just caring enough to master the basics of marksmanship and safety would make them aces high in my book. Sadly, many people, even many LEOs don't take it seriously enough. One doesn't have to become a gun aficionado to develope proficiency, with a tool they may need to save their life.
They are using ammo that meets the Power Factor rules. The power factor of a firearm is calculated using the formula of Bullet Weight (grains) times Velocity (feet/second) divided by 1000.
A lot of what is causing the recoil to look light, is the strong grip they are using.
For example I backed down from 22 grains of H-110 to 21 grains of H-110 for use with the 210 grain Gold Dot bullet in my Model 58. I also made a conscious effort to utilize a strong grip. It made a big difference. Of course that is a much more powerful load than is used in competition, but still the strong grip matters very much in taming recoil.
A lot of what is causing the recoil to look light, is the strong grip they are using.
For example I backed down from 22 grains of H-110 to 21 grains of H-110 for use with the 210 grain Gold Dot bullet in my Model 58. I also made a conscious effort to utilize a strong grip. It made a big difference. Of course that is a much more powerful load than is used in competition, but still the strong grip matters very much in taming recoil.
Deaf Smith
New member
Whoa guys...A question.
What is the Mozambique Drill for?
Do any of you know WHY it was invented?
You see the whole concept of the drill is to simulate shooting someone twice in the chest and then, after it fails to stop the attacker, a decision is made to shoot for the head.
That means it is no SPEED DRILL. You shoot twice, pause slightly to see if the desired effect has been reached, and if not shift target for the head.
IT IS A FAILURE TO STOP DRILL.
So don't use some IPSC/IDPA/Steel Challenge super shot define what is needed to complete a Mozambique, ok?
Deaf
What is the Mozambique Drill for?
Do any of you know WHY it was invented?
You see the whole concept of the drill is to simulate shooting someone twice in the chest and then, after it fails to stop the attacker, a decision is made to shoot for the head.
That means it is no SPEED DRILL. You shoot twice, pause slightly to see if the desired effect has been reached, and if not shift target for the head.
IT IS A FAILURE TO STOP DRILL.
So don't use some IPSC/IDPA/Steel Challenge super shot define what is needed to complete a Mozambique, ok?
Deaf
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