Model 97 Winchester.

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kraigwy

New member
Don't know if its me or the gun, but don't the triggers on Model 97s reset?

When shooting, I fire, work the pump (in 3-gun matches) and the gun fires again if I don't take my hand off the trigger. My 870s trigger needs to be reset after it fires. Not so on the M97.

Is this suppose to be like that or is the gun broke?

I normal hold the trigger back on my guns until I recover from the recoil (follow through) and with pump guns I work the action during recoil.
 
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BigG

New member
The M1897 does not have a disconnector, therefore the gun slam fires every time the bolt locks on a new cartridge. Got to learn to let the trigger go. :eek:
 
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MoGas1341

New member
Just a little piece of history...

Both, as stated, the 97 and Model 12 are like this, and truth be told that was part of their effectiveness when in the military 'trench gun' configuration in both World Wars.

The Marines, especially in the island hopping campaign of WW2, exploited this ability in the jungles of the Pacific Islands with the use of buckshot paired with those shotgun models :cool:... Just my tidbit to add to the conversation.
 
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Virginian

New member
While slam fire ability may be able to discharge shells marginally quicker, it's ability to put rounds on target faster is highly questionable.
 
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MoGas1341

New member
While the above is 100% correct about whether you can accurately slamfire, in the jungles, I would imagine it was more of a 'spray and pray' situation through the dense undergrowth. 7 rounds of 00 Buck could certainly put a hurting on the receiving end (that, and I imagine flamethrowers helped! :D)

But, at least the OP knows his Winnie is functioning perfectly fine!
 
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Virginian

New member
I read where we went from something like one casualty inflicted for every 1,500 shots fired in the Revolutionary War to like one casualty inflicted for every 4,500,000 rounds fired in Vietnam. And we lost. Must not have been praying hard enough I guess. :eek:
 
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kraigwy

New member
I read where we went from something like one casualty inflicted for every 1,500 shots fired in the Revolutionary War to like one casualty inflicted for every 4,500,000 rounds fired in Vietnam. And we lost. Must not have been praying hard enough I guess
Click to expand...

Apparently you haven't fought a battle in a jungle environment. Most engagements were one unseen combatant firing at a wood like at other un-seen combatants.

Completely a different type a battle so your numbers are misleading.

Read up on the History of the Vietnam war. We infact did win. According to the Paris Peace accords the Communist were suppose to stay north of the DMZ, leaving the RVN in tack and free. That was 1973. After Nixon was out, two years later in 1975 the NVA again invaded the south because they were assured that the dem controlled government in this country would do nothing to support the south.
 
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bamaranger

New member
others

Just so you know, ....there have been two other guys in our local league who have brought '97's to a 3 gun match as well. We all asked them where their ramrods were...............!

The one fella had it paired with a 1911........but his rifle was an AR. A Garand or Springfield would have been a neat threesome.
 
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Virginian

New member
Let's please hope we don't keep "winning" that way. I am more than a little familiar with the Vietnam War. We did not set out to win it, and in my opinion we did not win it. Rather fitting when you realize that the reason we were there in the first place was because we didn't want to let the whole country vote for a government because we knew they would vote communist. Seems we are only for democracy when the vote is likely to go our way. We seem to have the same attitude relative to Ukraine now. Good think France didn't step in to try to preserve world "stability" when some radical rebels looked to separate from the British in 1776.
 
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CaptainChaos

New member
My daughter's Ithica mod 37 works that way as
well.
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Indeed.

The Ithaca M37 was *designed* to operate in this way. (It had two sears - one operated by the trigger and one by the slide stop. Whichever lets go last, fires the gun.)

Regards,

Mark.
 
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kraigwy

New member
Just so you know, ....there have been two other guys in our local league who have brought '97's to a 3 gun match as well. We all asked them where their ramrods were...............!
Click to expand...

I know the feeling. I shot a 3-gun match with my USGI 30-40 Krag, I was asked if it was my "issue rifle" when I was in the Army.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
The 97 and the Model 12 were designed without a disconnector. There is no need, really. However, without a disconnector, they are more prone to accidents. The ability to slamfire the gun one of those things I consider a "neat" side effect, but never was the intended purpose.

Remember that these guns were designed as sporting arms, first. and it was also in an era when it was understood that if you held the trigger back when you closed the action, it would fire. If you did this accidentally, it was YOUR fault. :D

My little brother nearly shot his foot off when he grabbed my model 12 in his haste to shoot a pigeon off the barn roof. His own High Standard had a disconnector. :p After that, he was very aware of keeping his finger off the trigger.

Winchester began putting a disconnector in the late production Model 12s , I think in the 60s (Trap models), but none of the old guns have it.

To me, the biggest drawback to the model 97 (considering its design age) is the very narrow space between the stock and the bolt when you work the action. I cannot safely put my thumb over the wrist of the stock on a 97, if I do, I will get bit! Sooner, or later, :eek:

As a young fellow, I did a LOT of shooting with my Model 12 (it was my 16th birthday present, a 30" full choke field gun made in the 20s). Anyone with a little skill can pump and fire pulling the trigger nearly as fast as the slamfire method, although possibly a top competitor might gain a usable time advantage, if rather small.

If you are going to play with a 97, I would recommend you get at least one spare ejector. This is the most common part to break, and indeed, about the only one that ever does.
 
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340 Weatherby

New member
Long before I ever owned a Model 12, I read the stories of African Professionals using Model 12's as follow up guns for Leopard, because of the ability to slam fire the gun. However my own experience has been a lot of wasted shotshells trying it on birds. I can't do it accurately enough to hit anything in the air. but I guess an animal about ready to jump in your face may be different
 
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Virginian

New member
Most of the African AND Indian professional hunters I have read about used a SxS. If they used a Model 12 I suspect it was because it was the most reliable repeater available. They quit writing about the time the 870 came along, except for Capstick, and he used a SxS.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
Slam firing the model 12, or the 97 is about useless against anything in the air. It throws off your aim, and you swing.

Against a target on the ground, at a handful of yards, its a different matter entirely.
 
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Bushmaster1313

New member
Remington 31 is also slam fire.
Newer Ithaca 37's are not slam fire.

Walt Snyder, who knows a lot about the Ithaca 37, writes in his book that the 37's should never be slam fired.
 
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