Mixing Ammo in SD Handgun

[BillCA]

I dunno that this question has been asked, but here goes.

Another thread on SD shootings centered around the immediate aftermath of the shooting. My question is: Does anyone mix ammo loads/brands in their SD handgun?

For instance - in a wheelgun, do you load 2 rounds of 110gr JHP .38's followed by 3 of 158gr JHP .38's and a final .357 Magnum round?

Or in a pistol, use a JHP in the chamber followed by a FMJ then JHPs of differing brands or weights? (e.g. 124gr JHP, 115gr FMJ, 147gr JHP).

Or any other sequence of loadings?

My brief experiences with lawyers says that anything you do that they don't understand will be a "point of questioning" and this includes DA's. And the last thing we want is lawyers ascribing some kind of "evil intent" here.

For years we would load duty guns with 4 rounds of .38 special 158gr JHPs followed by 2 each .357 Mag 125gr JHPs. The purpose was that in a gunfight the "wake up" of the first round of magnum would let you know it was time to reload, instead of running the gun dry by surprise. I still do this with my J-Frame .357 -- 4 x .38's and 1 x .357.

Just curious if anyone else does it.

 

[625]

I am a big fan of the K.I.S.S. method. I personally don't like that idea at all, even in a shotgun. I don't understand (even with the explanation above)why anyone would want to have two or more rounds that performed differently in a life or death situation.

 

[bullethead]

In my P3AT I often have an HP in the chamber followed by FMJs in the mag. I do this mainly because the FMJs have never caused a FTF or any other problem, while the HPs have caused the gun to FTF one time out of 150 rounds. That one malfunction made me wonder, and I'd rather have 6 FMJs than a jam on a HP in a defensive situation.

Also I've wondered lately if the FMJ isn't a valid SD round in the .380 caliber because of lack of penetration with HPs. Any opinions on this would be welcome.

 

[wayneinFL]

For years we would load duty guns with 4 rounds of .38 special 158gr JHPs followed by 2 each .357 Mag 125gr JHPs. The purpose was that in a gunfight the "wake up" of the first round of magnum would let you know it was time to reload, instead of running the gun dry by surprise.

That's the first time I've heard that reason for mixing ammo. Interesting thought.

I'm sure it would work at the range, but I wonder if you'd notice the magnum load while being shot at. Did you ever have any experience with that?

 

[gb_in_ga]

"Also I've wondered lately if the FMJ isn't a valid SD round in the .380 caliber because of lack of penetration with HPs. Any opinions on this would be welcome."

There are essentially 2 schools of thought in the .380 ACP world -- those who use JHP's and those who use FMJ's. Neither are perfect. The .380 ACP is a world of compromise. You either load JHP's that may (or may not) expand but if they do they will give marginal penetration at best and if they don't they act like FMJ's. Or, you load FMJ's which will reliably penetrate but, of course, have no expansion, and are prone to over-penetration. Again, neither are perfect.

There are 2 exceptions to that rule: First, Hornady makes a .380 ACP JHP that is not so agressive about expansion and therefore actually does penetrate pretty well. The other exception is still quite new and not widely available, and that is that CorBon has just released a new DPX load for the .380 ACP which looks to both penetrate adequately and expand well at the same time -- the jury is still out on that one, it has only just now made it into the reviewers hands. Initial reports are favorable, it may be just what we .380 ACP users have been looking for.

About mixing ammo -- I for one don't. I opt for the most effective ammo I can get, and that's what I load. Consistency across the board. I do keep 2 extra magazines of .380 FMJ stashed away in the drawer -- over and above the extra magazine of the same JHP's that I keep in the gun with the gun -- as a reserve, in case things have gone south really bad. I've also got 2 extra speed loaders for my wheelgun, loaded up just the same as what is in the gun -- 6 x .38 spl +p 125 gr Gold Dots.

 

[BillCA]

WayneinFL,

Years ago the advice was handed to us by a former sheriff & FBI agent who taught people to shoot. I did try it during a "Duty-Ammo-Only" competition and found that it does work, with the caveat that the second magnum round usually shoots low during rapid fire. The difference between a .38 Special 158gr JHP and a .357 Mag 125gr JHP is flash, noise and recoil as far as the shooter is concerned. As I said, I still load the last round with a .357 in my J-Frame out of habit.

Back in wheelgun days, many rural LEOs carried 3 rounds of .38 and 3 of .357 Magnum. The rationale was that most of their activities were related to traffic enforcement and vehicles. If you'd missed with the first 3 shots, the magnum loads were better at penetrating automotive bodies than the .38's.

I knew quite a few LEOs who, during the transition from wheelgun to auto, carried a JHP in the chamber, then two FMJ's for reliability before getting into JHP's again. Never made that much sense to me since either your gun is reliable with your JHPs or it isn't. If it isn't, don't carry JHP's.

 

[Te Anau]

I'm convinced that in a semi or revolver you need at least a couple (revolver) or a few (semi) FMJ's mixed in with your HP's.You might need their penetration abilities when you least expect it.Better safe than sorry.

 

[rgoudy1975]

I do not mix, but a close friend of mine has alternating snake shot anf JHP in a snubbie for his house gun. His rationale is that even if he's pissing his pants, the snake shot will at least hit the BG. He lives alone, otherwise I would express concern for what else the snake shot might hit if he missed.

 

[ShootCraps]

I don't think it will be very useful in a deadly encounter, simply because in the heat of the moment you won't be able to count or remember what's in your magazine/cylinder.

Unless the BG gives you a time-out so you can think, "Ok now, that was one shot in the sofa, that one had to be a hollow point. And one went into the picture of Aunt Rose. That one was FMJ. So I should have snake shot in there now. Ok Mr. Bad Guy, I'm ready! Olly-Olly-Oxen-Free!".

 

[rgoudy1975]

It wouldn't really aid me to alternate ammo. As you may know, I only shoot for the eye

 

[IZinterrogator]

For years we would load duty guns with 4 rounds of .38 special 158gr JHPs followed by 2 each .357 Mag 125gr JHPs. The purpose was that in a gunfight the "wake up" of the first round of magnum would let you know it was time to reload, instead of running the gun dry by surprise.

I've done something similar with my M16 on deployment for years. Read about it in the old M16 technical manual. Now I always load three tracers in the bottom of my mags to let me know I'm almost out of ammo, so when I see two tracers in a row, it's time for a mag change. Of course, the new manuals don't carry any information on ammunition or magazines except what types of ammo are issued and how to load a magazine, so I have to teach the newbies these tricks myself.

 

[grendelbane]

Many people hate cocktail loads. I am not one of them. I understand the KISS approach, and also understand the desirability of consistency.

However, there are situations where a cocktail load may well be appropriate.

The .380 has been mentioned. With this round you have to choose either penetration or expansion, you simply can't have both at the same time, unless of course, you alternate FMJ with JHP. I used to load the last round in the magazine of my Colt Mustang with FMJ simply because the Silvertips preceding it would not consistently lock the slide back.

People who carry with an empty chamber might well keep a FMJ on the top of the magazine, for sure feeding, and JHPs below that, for good expansion.

For those people who think that you shouldn't mix rounds because you can not tell which one will be coming up, do you actually think that you are going to fire, or withhold fire, based upon what kind of round is in the chamber?

 

[ShootCraps]

For those people who think that you shouldn't mix rounds because you can not tell which one will be coming up, do you actually think that you are going to fire, or withhold fire, based upon what kind of round is in the chamber?

For those people who think that you should mix rounds, do you actually think that you are going to fire, or withhold fire, based upon what kind of round is in the chamber?

 

[IZinterrogator]

I think the idea is that they are going to fire or withhold fire based on what just came out of the chamber.

 

[ShootCraps]

I think the idea is that they are going to fire or withhold fire based on what just came out of the chamber.

Correct. And that's one of the fallacies of this idea. You shoot until the threat is neutralized - Period.

And if you have to load ball ammo in with fmj because you're not sure if the gun will feed jhp, you shouldn't be carrying that gun. Or you should use only fmj.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

I did it in a S&W Model 58 -

I did it in a S&W Model 58 - lower powered followed by the full Magnum in the days Remington had a whopping 2 loads to choose from. I had some confidence the lower powered load was adequate for short range interpersonal needs - speed rock - and I knew I would be quicker with the lower recoil myself. I thought as mentioned above that the full magnum might be useful against cars or other cover/concealment. Full magnum in the speedloaders - if I'm still shooting it's likely a full Weaver stance against some interesting opposition.

These days it's a 1911 and only one load - I accept the fact that some things will be cover that would have been only concealment to the full house .41 Remington Magnum and also that I can't shoot as well at longer range any more myself so I probably shouldn't.

 

[tuckerdog1]

I mix

I like to mix loads. If you're loaded up with light hollowpoints, and the big bad man has a heavy coat on with several layers under it, your gonna bruise him up, but not stop him. On the other hand, if he's sporting just a T-shirt, the expansion of the hollowpoint is just the ticket.
I keep my G26 mixed with Black Talon ( yea still got a couple boxes of those around ), & Hyrda-Shock hollowpoints. Then mixed in some 147gr solids for penetration. I guess it's a throw a variety at them, hope you hit them & hope something does the job. Sort of a "Don't put all your eggs ( ammo choice ) in one basket".

Tuckerdog1

 

[Jkwas]

Yeah, I usually load a FMJ, a hollow point, a shaped charge (for tanks), A Silver Bullet(in case I run across a werewolf), and one tipped with kryptonite( so I don't have to throw my gun at superman after emptying at him).
Seriously folks, I load with quality hollowpoints.

 

[joshua]

I do it for my revolvers loaded for SD in the house and carrying in the car. For the Rossi 851 I have the 38 spl multi ball for the first 3 then 125 gr speer hp. If I have to go to my speed loaders then I have 158 SPs for both. For my 357s, I have the same 38 spl set up for the initial loads then when I go to the speed loaders I have 125 gr JHPs in magnum loads. My reasoning is usually a burgler doesn't want to stay for a shootout and the 38 spl loads won't punch through walls being 38 spl velocity. Not if he the bad guy decides to stay after I shot 6 rounds he must mean business so the 158 SPs or full 357 loads means I'm serious also. Believe me if I spent 6 rounds of ammo I'm making my way towards the 12 ga I got stoked with three #4s, three 00 bucks then two slugs. My reasoning for the different loads in my 12 ga is just in case the bad guy has a vest. Since my oldest son turned 5 I switched my stand by handguns from revolvers to semi auto. My Colt commander is usually stoked with HPs all the way, but I do have one mag with FMJs. My 9mm is stoked with flat point TMJs. It doesn't matter what gun I'm using, I shoot to stop - I mean I don't stop shooting until I see the perp stop. josh

 

[BillCA]

All in all, a very interesting discussion.

It seems that a lot of people just load their favorite load and let it go with that. It seems that home defense folks think in terms of progressively more penetration while carriers think in terms of simplicity (1 load) or penetration (mixed JHP/FMJ).

Like ClarkEMyers, I used to carry 4 rounds of the .41 Mag "Police" load and 2 rounds of JSPs and a pair of speedloaders with 6 of each. At least until I saw what the slower LSWC would do to modern auto bodies.