Mixed magazine loading

[Regular Joe]

Q&A The website says that I spend a lot of time in the boonies, photographing "stuff".
First 100 yd. encounter was on a 100 yd. range. I was posting targets when some "educated gentleman" started shooting at me or my targets from the back of his van with an AR-15. I returned fire into a shooting bench near him, and he got the idea. My gun at that time was a P-85, shooting 124 gr. XTP's over 8 gr. of blue dot.
2nd. time, a friend and I were strolling around an old quarry. Many gangbanger types pulled up at the rim of the hole, 100+ yds. away, and started raining fire on us. We both raked a full mag along the edge of the hole at their end, and they got that clue. My gun that time was the same P-85; same load.
3rd. time, I was hunting wabbits with my .223 varminter. I was maybe 400 yds. off when I saw a car pull up next to mine. Watching, I saw that they were checking for locked doors. Through the 24x scope, I saw that their efforts were getting more creative. Just one shot at the fallen water tank near them put a stop to that.
A good point is that you don't have to **** people off to be in a bad situation. That's why we call it self-defense, and that's why my use of handloads is defensible. If they started the shooting, I am off of that hook.
I have also been in situations where the presence of my gun kept everyone nice and civil like. Once in Wyoming, my wife and I were just parked by a dirt road. when I heard a vehicle coast to a stop, behind a nearby hill. One guy went sneaking up the gorge to a hill behind us, and his accomplice showed up a few minutes later, acting like a friendly bumpkin. The P-85 came out to greet him, and convinced him to call his buddy out from cover. No shots needed that time. I hope I never do need to shoot another human being, but if it comes to that, I intend to leave 4" exit holes, and justifiably so. I intend to continue to travel wherever I please. One thing that is certain is that there will never be a shortage of stupid, no matter where you go. If it can't be dissuaded or avoided, a full potency handload can cure it.

 

[Coastal]

Regular Joe wrote:

with three of them occurring at ranges of 100 yds. or more. I prefer to carry a pistol because I need to give my main strength to lugging photo equipment.

Which mall do you work at?

 

[hillbillyshooter]

Maybe for shotgun

I haven't ever heard of mixed loading in a semi. Have heard of it in a wheel gun, but discreditted it. The only application that I like the sound of would be in HD shotguns. I have had friends who load 00 Buck, then 0 Buck in an alternating pattern. I like this idea, if the HD shotty is semiauto, to have #4 shot (3in mag if possible) then 00 Buck. Hit the BG with a very painful, possibly lethal round with the #4 and if need be hit him with the 00 Buck to finish him. I do not mean this as a favor to the BG, but as safety in the home, b/c if it only takes one shot, with shot that will not penetrate walls then great. But if you need more take down power, that might go through walls, you gotta do what you gotta do. If the gun is pump, I would only load 00 Buck or 0 Buck.

 

[scorpion_tyr]

Thanks for all the info guys. It helped me shoot some holes in the theory. To help clear things up, I don't mix. I've got JHP Hydra-shoks loaded in all my S/HD handguns, 00BK in my 12g, and all the other firearms stay unloaded. Was just informed today that one of the people who advised me to mix was "counceled" by his LE supervisor. He's JHP all the way now. The other one sticks by his, each to his own. For Regular Joe... I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just gonna say that I have a REAL hard time believing your stories. Copies of police reports posted should clear all that up wouldn't it? You did notify LE didn't you?

 

[hillbillyshooter]

To regularjoe

Interesting tales. I believe that if I had as many situations that required pulling my gun as you have encountered, I probably would leave my house very little. I would look at where you go and what type of situations you were putting yourself in. Not sure of the legality of your stories, seems like some crimes were committed by yourself. If you shot at these people, you might have as well have shot them. I never thought that "warning" shots were advisable. Also, you shot at someone who was not trying to hurt you or someone else, there was no safety concern that required your use of force. Would like to hear some more of these stories though, keep crankin' them out. They're a riot.

 

[ChicagoTex]

Also, you shot at someone who was not trying to hurt you or someone else, there was no safety concern that required your use of force.

At the risk of playing devil's advocate, there are a number of states where using deadly force to protect your car is perfectly legal (as per the letter of the law, which is not always how a grand jury will see it).

 

[hillbillyshooter]

On property or not?

ChicagoTex,
Does this include when your vehicle is not on your actual property? I have never heard of a place where you can shoot someone to keep your car from getting broken into (short of someone you love being in that car at the time). I can understand it more if your vehicle was parked in your driveway, because it would be tresspassing and you could argue that the person presented a danger to your family and I believe that some Castle Docterines cover not only house but grounds. But even if you could used deadly force in regularjoe's case, I don't think that you could quitely "snipe" someone with a varmit rifle, without taking other steps to resolve the situation. I'm pretty sure that would be "cold-blooded" murder. A simple "GET THE F#*K AWAY FROM MY CAR!" might have done the trick. I'm not a lawyer or LEO, but I don't see anyway that shooting someone, without presenting yourself, from a long distance away, who is trying to break into your car could be defended as necessary use of force. If you want, someone can give it a shot and let me know how it turns out. I'm not going to give 12 people the chance to take my freedom b/c I shot someone over a CD player.

 

[ChicagoTex]

Does this include when your vehicle is not on your actual property?

In Texas it does.

I'm not a lawyer or LEO, but I don't see anyway that shooting someone, without presenting yourself, from a long distance away, who is trying to break into your car could be defended as necessary use of force.

As I alluded to earlier, this is where the LETTER OF THE LAW and the circumstances surrounding the incident, as interpreted by a judge or jury differ. In fact, I'm sure there's gotta be some Texas case law somewhere that verifies your claim - no one sane could find no fault in sniping someone without a word from hundreds of yards off to protect your car.

In THIS particular example, regularjoe has no real case. But there are other situations where, in certain states, it takes a lot less threat than you'd think.

 

[hillbillyshooter]

ChicagoTex,
I do understand that laws are different in individual states. Some places have Castle, and some do not. The Castle covers just the home in some states where as it covers adjoining porperty in others. It just seems to be a bad idea. I mostly got into this discussion because I think that it is bad for the credibility of this site to have someone talking about wrecklessly pulling and firing his gun at people as regularjoe claims to have done. I just felt the need to explain why this is not the standard to be practiced.

 

[hillbillyshooter]

Just read the Texas Statute

Texas law is pretty interesting. It allows you the ability to use force for so many reasons (protecting 3rd person property even). You are right, ChicagoTex, the letter of the law may vary state to state, but I don't think that a jury would see that shooting as necessary. Texas outlines it all very well. I wish other states would give examples as clearly as Texas, giving a detailed list of crimes that could warrant force. Not much grey area on paper in the Lone Star State.

 

[Regular Joe]

Of course, I'm devastated that some folks don't believe what I wrote. How can I believe in my own experience when it isn't validated by everyone on the internet?
In the case of those guys messing with my car-- there's a big difference between a warning shot at a water tank and actually sniping anyone. The distance was too far to yell. As for notifying Johnny Law, what would I expect to accomplish? I don't think there's any "good way" to deal with people who are obviously trying to break into your car, when you're alone and 1/4 mile away. The "field expedient" was to show them that there is no "good way" to break into a car when your intended victim is hiding in the bushes with a high powered rifle. It worked.
Getting back to the subject of the thread, I think that's all been cleared up. As for mixing loads in a magazine, I can't think of any situation I've been in where that would have proven to help. Nor can I foresee a situation where it would, except for the possible choice of stacking different loads in a HD shotgun. Even at that though, I don't practice it, because one assumes that all shots would be taken inside the structure, and so one wouldn't want anything that would penetrate far beyond that structure. There was a case here in Las Vegas where a man did use his shotgun against intruders, and killed both of them. One was shot as he was running down the stairs, and died OUTSIDE the house, on the walkway. The shooter ran after the second guy, and killed him on the sidewalk, 2 houses away. This case took a long time to resolve, but he did get away with it. I don't know how.
I try to avoid mixing ammo, even in my inventory, because different loads hit to different points of impact, and you won't be thinking of that compensation in a real life scenario. Train with your carry load.
Of course, this is just me talking, and you don't have to believe it.

 

[ChicagoTex]

there's a big difference between a warning shot at a water tank and actually sniping anyone.

In terms of the legal definition of the application of deadly force, there actually isn't. That said, obviously you didn't actually shoot anyone, and while it legally doesn't change your ACTION it did change your CONSEQUENCE. Because there were no third-party witnesses this argument boils down largely to semantics, but the fact of the matter is that what you did, in all probability, was wrong in the eyes of the law (depending on jurisdiction).

It's a dark gray area many of us don't particularly care to go, and while I can't say with certainty I wouldnt've done what you did, I'd certainly feel less self-righteous about it than you seem to.

 

[Webleymkv]

I've actually heard a couple of good reasons for mixing JHP and FMJ. First is someone carrying a small handgun such as a .25 or .32ACP. The thought is to start with JHP for expansion and then go to FMJ if that fails due to lacking penetration. The other reason isn't very valid anymore: 20-30 years ago, when most semi-autos weren't set up to feed JHP, many people would load JHP in the chamber and FMJ in the magazine to ensure reliable feeding. FWIW, some African professional hunters use this philosophy with their dangerous game rifles they'll load either the chamber or first firing barrel (depends on if they're using a bolt-action or double rifle) with a softpoint and go to solids after that.

 

[shortwave]

Wembleymkv, used to ccw a Makarov and alternated jhp and fmj for the penetration factor. Loved the reliability just questioned the penetration of the jhp.