Mixed magazine loading

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scorpion_tyr

New member
My own personal training style for home defense is to shoot two in the chest one in the head. Been told by a few people to keep my mags loaded 2 JHP, 1FMJ (repeat) for better skull penetraion with the FMJ. I keep mine loaded with all JHP's right now for simplicity. I'm not too educated when it comes to ballistics, does that or any other mixed loading make any sense? Would it make any sense to do something similar with a HD shotgun?
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
I will not answer for the pistol loading, I have never personally considered it. For a HD shotgun it makes no sense to mix the mag for the most part since any one of your shots could be errant. Moreso, the capacity to multi-task so much that you can keep count and track of the rounds while in the heat of confrontation is more than I care to attempt. I do however, have a single slug in the bottom of my mag tube in case I need a coup da gras or whatever...
Brent
 
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scorpion_tyr

New member
That's pretty much my opinion on the subject. In a dangerous life or death situation it all seems too much to keep track of. I figure if I'm against 2 or more attackers and the first only needs one or two to take out then I'll be putting a FMJ into a great place for a JHP.
 
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ChicagoTex

Moderator
My own personal training style for home defense is to shoot two in the chest one in the head. Been told by a few people to keep my mags loaded 2 JHP, 1FMJ (repeat) for better skull penetraion with the FMJ. I keep mine loaded with all JHP's right now for simplicity. I'm not too educated when it comes to ballistics, does that or any other mixed loading make any sense? Would it make any sense to do something similar with a HD shotgun?
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Very ill-advised. You're banking on the assumption each of your shots will hit exactly where you intend (which almost never happens in a real shooting), and in a decent caliber a JHP is more than capable of skull penetration. Furthermore, "two to center of mass, one to the head" is no longer the standard training regimen for a reason, head shots are tricky to obtain on moving targets and if you load FMJ for your "head shot round" you run a much greater risk of extra collateral damage if your FMJ penetrates a wall and strikes someone else, or overpenetrates the skull on a hit.

Plus, it can be argued by a prosecuting attorney who doesn't like you or guns very much that specially loaded to do "maximum killing damage" or something along those lines.

Stick with all JHP.
 
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scorpion_tyr

New member
I agree with training for center mass only, that's what I advised my wife to do. The only reason I train 2/1 is because that's how I'm required to qualify with my job and I don't like to mix up training styles. I hope I never have to, but if it ever comes up in court why I placed a round in the BG's head I can provide documentation stating that's how I was trained by the US Gov and that training was clear that the head shot was only if the first two didn't stop the aggressor.
 
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ChicagoTex

Moderator
I hope I never have to, but if it ever comes up in court why I placed a round in the BG's head I can provide documentation stating that's how I was trained by the US Gov and that training was clear that the head shot was only if the first two didn't stop the aggressor.
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Yes, but can you provide documentation stating they trained you to alternate bullet type in accordance with that?

I'm on your side, I'm just pointing out there's a persuasive argument to be made to an ignorant group of 12 of your "peers"
 
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scorpion_tyr

New member
That's very true. Ha ha... one more reason I didn't think it was a good idea, especially since a few CCW instructors I know have stopped teaching 2/1 since supposedly in Louisiana it's automatically considered premeditated if you make a head shot. Although an average citizen could always claim that he "missed" the center mass he was aiming at.
 
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Regular Joe

New member
Huh? Of course it matters whether you shoot FMJ or JHP, and even moreso at close range, as the JHP will have more velocity to do what it does.
FWIW, I find that the Nosler 115 gr. JHP may be a "better" 9mm bullet for HD, because they are quite frangible, and thus less likely to exit. If you miss, the bullet breaks up easily, and those fragments will run out of energy faster than an intact bullet of any configuration. This is assuming that you load as I do, to about 1,300 fps.
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
I could shoot a hole in that reloader=villian stand point... Ladies and gents of the jury, let me submit my bank statements and cost analysis of reloading ammo versus buying PREMIUM factory ammo...:rolleyes:
Brent
 
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Regular Joe

New member
I wasn't born yesterday. There have been a half dozen or so times when I have had to draw a weapon and/or fire against brainless wonders. All of these incidents have happened outdoors, with three of them occurring at ranges of 100 yds. or more. I prefer to carry a pistol because I need to give my main strength to lugging photo equipment. Indeed I do practice shooting 1 gal. milk jugs at around 100 yds. with my P-95. My ammo must be handloaded to accomplish the power and accuracy I need. My website:
http://www.sparrowminded.com attests to the validity of my claims. Your witness......
 
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ChicagoTex

Moderator
My ammo must be handloaded to accomplish the power and accuracy I need.
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Just because it's ill-advised doesn't mean you have to listen to me or anyone else who takes my position. You have the freedom to choose to do what you will, I was just highlighting a potential consequence of your decision. Obviously you feel the benefits outweigh the risks.

Can't argue with that.
 
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scorpion_tyr

New member
Quote from Regular Joe: "There have been a half dozen or so times when I have had to draw a weapon and/or fire against brainless wonders. All of these incidents have happened outdoors, with three of them occurring at ranges of 100 yds."

Using the key word "had" I'm assuming you were in a self defense situation. How does that happen at a range of 100 yards? I've been threatened with lethal force twice, both times a lot closer than a 100 yards, and both situations ended without the use of a firearm. If this is accurate, I just want to know what you were doing to **** these people off so bad, and where do you live cause I'm never going there with so many dangerous "brainless wonders" roaming about.
 
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Hunter Rose

New member
I actually got to talk with Mas Ayoob about the "don't handload defensive ammo" thing.

Appearantly, there was a case where a woman shot herself with ammunition that her husband had handloaded for her (downpowered .38, IIRC). During the investigation, they checked the headstamp, and used factory ammo to do the powder burn check. Since the powder burn at point blank was so much more severe in their test, the conclusion was that the man had shot her from father away (as opposed to her doing it at point blank). And the whole theory now stands that handloaded defensive ammo will destroy you in court.

Personally, I load my ammo to almost factory levels. I prefer my handloads because I'm lazy: it's easier to just use the same recipe for practice ammo and social than to work up a practice load that matches a factory load. Should I ever become involved in a self-defense shooting, it will be made abundantly clear that it's not factory ammo. And the Starline casings will bear that out... ;)
 
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stevelyn

New member
I'm not aware of any doctrine anywhere that would advocate a mixed mag load. Most of the advice I hear and give myself is if you carry the same load as the local cops you should be good.

Shoot twice assess. Shoot again (if needed) assess. Failure to stop 2 COM, 1 to the computer.

Anyone taking a whack to the head isn't going to know if it was a HP or hardball. Sometime back I put the coop-dee gracie on a brown bear. A 180 grain .40 Speer Gold Dot had no problem punching through the skull.

I would suggest steering away from the hardball just out of safety concerns.
 
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Shadi Khalil

New member
"There have been a half dozen or so times when I have had to draw a weapon and/or fire against brainless wonders. All of these incidents have happened outdoors, with three of them occurring at ranges of 100 yds."
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The return of Gecko45? Boy I sure hope so :p
 
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shortwave

New member
For self defense my personsal preference is all same factory SD load, shot at center mass, practicing the double-tap "zipper" technique from 3-7 yds. My 100yd. shots are practiced with scoped,.475 linebaugh with hunting loads;).
 
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