Misaligned barrel, poor workmanship?

[ClemBert]

I just received a new Uberti made 1858 Remington. Initial inspection shows a pretty well made firearm for the most part...but...and you knew a "but" was coming...it would seem that the barrel alignment is less than perfect. Unfortunately, the front sight is mounted on that misaligned barrel and that front sight is pretty useful when trying to hit point-of-aim. I've seen a few of you complain about misaligned barrels in the past but the specifics of how bad the alignment was and what the solution was escapes me. So, the question becomes what IS acceptable? Nothing is ever perfect but reasonable tolerances are expected. I would expect, off the top of my head, that a barrel should be within 1/2 of a degree within perfect alignment. As you can see from the pictures below the alignment is less than ideal. I estimate this barrel to be between 3 and 5 degrees beyond top dead center (assuming the barrel is screwed in clockwise as seen from the muzzle).

Sorry for the bad pictures. I did the very best I could with the equipment I have to take pictures detailing the problem. It is very difficult to exhibit the problem in this manner.

Is this fixable? Would you accept this or just send it back? Have you seen this problem before? Thoughts?

 

[AdmiralB]

The two I got from Midway were like that (both sent back for other reasons), the one I own now (from Buffalo) was like that.

However, it shot to point of aim.

I contacted Cimarron and they had me send it to a warranty guy (about 70 miles from me), who fixed it (simply tightened the barrel).

Of course, then I had to drift the sight over, since it no longer shot to point of aim!

If it bugs you, contact Cimarron. They've changed their warranty policy now and I think everything has to go to a guy in Texas, but they'll fix it if you want.

 

[ClemBert]

the one I own now (from Buffalo) was like that.

Would you say it was off by 3-5 degrees?

The reason I asked if it could be "fixed" (I know that it can but can it be fixed right) is if the barrel does in fact screw in clockwise that means you would have to "loosen" or unscrew it 5 degrees to get it aligned. I'm no gunsmith but I assume the barrel would still be tight if unscrewed. I do wonder, however, if this means there would be a gap between where the exterior of the barrel meets the frame. It certainly means increasing the gap between the barrel and cylinder...but...we are talking about the oh so slightest movement of the barrel. Just curious.

 

[sundance44s]

I`ve bought several this way myself ....I finally found a local gunsmith that was willing to adjust the barrels to the frames so I could shoot point of aim .
The Uberti Remington of course has a front sight dove tailed in ....but on some you would have to drift the front sight so far to one side it just doesn`t look right ....I`ve had those straightened out also ...much more pleaseing to shoot now ........you might check with some local gunsmiths about makeing the fix ...I think I paid 20.00 for the last one I had fixed ...still a good deal on these Italian made guns ......for what I paid for them ...and they are good shooters now...................I had thought about buying a barrel and frame wrench ( which is what it would take ) ...for both around 100.00 ...at midway

 

[grymster2007]

You could make a steel spacer from shim stock to tighten the barrel back down to. Calculate the thickness based on the thread pitch and how far it needs to rotate to clock correctly, place the spacer and crank the barrel back down.

 

[ClemBert]

You could make a steel spacer from shim stock to tighten the barrel back down to. Calculate the thickness based on the thread pitch and how far it needs to rotate to clock correctly, place the spacer and crank the barrel back down.

Thank you for your suggestion. I do appreciate it but that just seems a bit cheesy for a brand new Uberti out of the box don't you think?

 

[Hawg]

That little bit of tweaking won't hurt anything. It will still be tight with no gap.

 

[grymster2007]

just seems a bit cheesy for a brand new Uberti out of the box don't you think?

Done right, you'll probably be the only one that knows the shim is there.... other than us, of course. It will change the gap but probably not by much. If you post the thread pitch and angle of rotation you need, I'll tell you how thick. My '58 Pietta has the same business and maybe I'll fix it someday. My '63 Pocket Remington's barrel runs off a couple of degrees to the right. I don't know for sure what the problem is with that one, but seems that maybe the front of the frame is not perpendicular to the cylinder axis. If that's the case I may have to machine it so it is.

 

[Hawg]

Done right, you'll probably be the only one that knows the shim is there.

Why does he need a shim? Backing it up that little bit isn't going to make it loose.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I would send it back. If not, just turn it back a quarter turn and re-tighten, stopping when the sight is correct. It's only off a few degrees, there should be plenty of torque on the threads when your done. It's not going to change the gap by more than a thousandth or so, if that.

 

[flibuste]

I had various 1858 with this problem ; theorically , it can be fixed very easily by screwing or unscrewing the barrel a little bit ;

BUT and there is a serious BUT, some barrel are very tightly screwed within the frame and necessitate very professional tool not to wreck everything when trying to unscrew them. I know, I wrecked one .....
In case of brass frame it is very easy to unscrew the barrel but with steel frame you never know which amount of torque will be necessary .

I would suggest that you adjust the front sight with some shooting ; if the front sight has to be pushed too much outside the barrel, then send it back ;

Regards

 

[pohill]

I usually buy used guns but a few of the new ones I bought had problems. When that happened, I contacted the importer (Taylors for Uberti, Traditions for Pietta), bypasing the place where I bought the guns, and Taylors and Traditions each offered to fix/replace the guns at no charge. They even sent me new parts, no charge. They keep track of the serial numbers since they warranty the guns for a year.
I would not pay to have a new gun fixed, especially if it's under waranty.
If I could fix it myself, I would, but once you work on a gun you might void the warranty.

 

[whosyrdaddy]

Send it back. And while your at it, write a nice little note for the new owner and stick it inside the owners manual. When the people you bought it from send it out to the next unsuspecting customer he might appreciate the heads up. You could even write the url of this thread on it so he can let us know when he gets it.

 

[grymster2007]

Why does he need a shim? Backing it up that little bit isn't going to make it loose.

Maybe he doesn't. That would depend on how it's currently torqued and how far he has to go. The shim simply ensures the proper rotation and same torque.... whether the current torquing is right or wrong.

 

[Hawg]

Barrels have a really fine thread, somewhere around 20 threads per inch depending on manufacturer. It will still be tight and still have plenty of torque to hold it there.

 

[grymster2007]

20 TPI with three degrees rotation makes for less than a half thousandths inch. I'll defer.

 

[arcticap]

I wouldn't keep it.
Would you have bought it if you could have inspected it beforehand?
Just pay for the return shipping if you must and be done with it.

 

[sundance44s]

If I had bought it new .....I would send it back ...the ones I`ve had fixed were Gunbroker deals on wheels ......

 

[Doc Hoy]

For what it is worth...which aint much

Fellas,

I like Hawg's post from 2:08 and MCB's from 2:29 with a nod to Flibuste at 2:29.

I built three Remingtons from kits in the late 70s. Two had brass frames and one had a steel frame. At that time I could have "made" this problem occur in any of those kits by simply turning the barrel in slightly more than was needed for a nice line-up. In fact I probably did it on each of those pistols and then had to back off on the barrel to get it lined up right. In each case the barrel was loose enough to turn but tight enough to stay where I put it. Also in each case, there was no perceptible gap between the shoulder of the barrel and the nose of the frame when I lined it up right.

I clamped the barrel in a wood vice and turned the frame holding onto only the solid front so as not to distort the frame. I checked the alignment by setting a straight edge on the frame and checking the alignment of the sight.

Please understand, I have only gotten back into BP pistols recently and much may have changed. There are plenty of smart people involved in this conversation already. I would welcome a post from one of them to either endorse or condemn my solution. But I have seen this before in the manner in which I described.

 

[ClemBert]

It is disappointing to see this issue right out of the box. I would have gladly paid an extra $10 had Uberti required to hire someone who's job was to inspect and fix each firearm that had this problem as it went down the assembly line. While you are screwing on the barrel why not just adjust/fix the problem while sitting in the jig. How much more money does this add to the cost to spend 5 more minutes on the firearm. Please don't tell me that these firearms are so inexpensive that this particular issue should be given the pass. Just charge me $10 more and send out a better product. Sheesh!