military use of .22lr (and other "minor" handgun calibers)

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simonrichter

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I guess back in the Vietnam era, the .22lr still had kind of a niche role in the military for taking out sentry dogs and the like.

I guess with all the development in large caliber suppressors, there is no more use for this tiny caliber in the military context? It#s just that a good suppressed .22lr is really close to "silent" while a 9mm or a .45 with a can still makes some noise...

The same goes for other "minor" calibers like .32acp or .380 - afaik these where in limited use up to the 80ies with higher ranks and bodyguards etc. due to the petit size of the corresponding weapons, but with all the miniaturization I reckon this niche is obsolete as well?

Maybe someone knows of some special military use up until today...?
 
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Husqvarna

New member
Israelis use 10/22

to shoot stonethrowers in the legs

so kinda little more than less-lethal or something

the maerican 180 was used in Rhodesia
 
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zincwarrior

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Back in the 50s and 60s, in the Corps one could shoot .22 pistols and rifles. Dad noted he shot a buttload of .22 while in the states and Greenland (or Iceland, not sure). They did not have these facilities in Korea (that whole war thing) and his other locations. This was M1 and later M14 days.
 
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DaleA

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Back in the 50s and 60s, in the Corps one could shoot .22 pistols and rifles.
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Interesting! Anybody know if this is still going on today? What about trap/skeet on base?
 
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TruthTellers

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The 1903 Colt Pocket Hammerless pistols in .32 ACP were issued to high ranking officers in the US military from the 30's until the 70's. Not really used in combat, but they were issued.

.32 ACP Welrod pistols were used by British and US in WW2, possibly even after the 40's. The Welrod is just a good design for as silent as possible, but still reliable and more effective than .22 LR.

I don't think any .380's have ever been used with military forces likely because the 9mm would suffice and be a much better choice. IDK, maybe some country used the MAC-11 for super special forces?
 
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BillM

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Some of the Colt General Officers pistols were .380. 380 was used by a number of
militaries---but not by that name. 9mm Kurz, Corto, Short, Kratak---all the same
9x18 round.
 
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Reloadron

New member
Colt did manufacture a .22 - .45 conversion kit for the 1911 .45 ACP pistols. During my Marine Corps years (1969 - 1978) I had heard of them but never saw one. Like Vietnam in 1972 you would hear about things (Rumor Control Central) but never see them. I don't know when Colt stopped making the .22 - .45 conversion kits for sale to the US Government. Mine is a Colt commercial version. There were a good number of .22 LR rifles used for training purposes and also several survival rifles the Air Force liked for bomber crews. Not a clue what still may be in use today.

Ron
 
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arquebus357

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I believe that in the mid-50's Air Force survival rifles were .22 Hornet.

.22 Hornet was very popular back then. Every farm kid in Iowa had one of those .22 Hornet over 20 ga. under firearms.
 
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Siggy-06

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Israel military used it for riot control, but it turned out to be too lethal. The navy SEALS used a supressed Ruger Mark II in the 90's for a while. The CIA's field agents also carried suppressed .22s in urban environments. I believe mossad is still using the 10/22.
 
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T. O'Heir

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"...380's have ever been used with military forces..." MP's and civilian Police in Europe. General Isaac White( 2nd Armored Div. W.W. II) was issued a .380-caliber Model 1908 in 1945. Quite a few U.S. General officers had .380's.
"...reckon this niche is obsolete..." More about budgets than anything else.
7.65mm, FN-Browning Model 1910's were issued to CF generals from 1970.
No. 7 Lee-Enfield .22's were used for eons as training rifles. As well as High Standard pistols, the Regm't never used. And there was a sub-calibre device made for the C1A1 rifle, the Regm't never used either. More trouble to borrow 'em than it was worth.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
I would point out that, among the equipment displayed by the Soviets after shooting down Frances Gary Powers' U2 spyplane was a suppressed High Standard .22LR and four boxes of ammo.

.22LR target rifles and pistols were available to use at many military posts recreational ranges, up through at least the 1970s when I served.

Frontline combat? not so much. Training & some more ..covert applications, yes, we did use the .22LR. I don't know if we still do, or if so, to what degree, though.
 
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DaleA

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If you trust Wikipedia you can find info, including a picture, here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model_1903_Pocket_Hammerless

Here's some text from the article.
General Officer models were often engraved with the officer's name. Recipients included Generals Eisenhower, Bradley, Marshall, and Patton. Patton's Model 1908 was embellished with three (later four) stars on the grip panels to denote his rank. They were issued with a fine-grade leather holster, leather pistol belt with gold-metal clasp, rope pistol lanyard with gold-metal fittings, and leather two-pocket ammunition pouch with gold-metal fasteners. They came in russet or black leather (depending on service and regulations) and were made by ALPCO (Atchison Leather Products) or Hickock. A cleaning rod and two spare magazines were also included. Generals were issued the Model M in .380 ACP, until 1950, when supply ran out. At that point, they were substituted with .32 models until their replacement in 1972. The Pocket Hammerless was replaced by the M15 pistol made by Rock Island Arsenal in .45 ACP. Today, the Pocket Hammerless is manufactured by U.S. Armament, and is licensed by Colt.
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Model12Win

Moderator
The Russians used or used a suppressed modified Olympic 5.6mm rifle in the second Chechen war.

The reason?

During the first Chechen war, they suffered casualties and were in general greatly hampered by Chechen snipers armed with similar rimfire weapons. The Russians have a pension for adopting weapons found effect against there own forces.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
AFAIK, the Colt 22/45 conversion units were strictly for use in training where ranges suitable for .45 were not available or .45 practice was thought too expensive. I have never heard of any being used in combat.

IIRC a H-S .22 was issued to Powers, of U2 fame, for survival hunting in case he was forced down, the same reason bomber crews were sometimes issued "survival rifles". While, obviously, such a "survival" guns could be used against an enemy, it was never intended to be an effective anti-personnel weapon. The airman's weapon was really the plane itself and its weapons, not a pilot's personal pistol.

Jim
 
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cpt-t

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In Viet Nam in the 1960`s & 1970`s in 111 Corps you would see a Suppressed High Standard 22LR every once in awhile. They were usually carried by one of the Spooks. And the ones I got to shoot were really quiet and extremely accurate. I never seen one but I have heard Marines from up north talk about seeing Suppressed Ruger 22LR in I Corp, again carried mostly by Spooks.
ken
 
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