Military Ammo Sucks?

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Maximus856

New member
Um, dang. I know I'd say I'd stop but its hard when you got SPUSCG pretty much telling me I'm an idiot.

I'd love to see how you clear a room. Congradulations, you did it by your self. Now do it with 3 other guys and see how easy it is to maneuver with a m48. Theres three things you need to know about room clearing for sake of this conversation; the stack, the fatal funnel, and speed. The stack is 'nuts to butts.' When someone breaks off inside the fatal funnel you raise up. Longer it takes for the guy in front of you to clear out of your way the longer you dont have your rifle raised in the most deadly area of the room. The longer the rifle the longer it takes to raise up. Once in a building you manuever with minimum one other guy, if not 3+ others, and your rifle is raised at all times. Trying to maneuever around somebody else with a full length long rifle is not easy. So 5.5" more inches DOES matter when you have more people in there.

So let me say it FROM IRAQ for fryedup that you do not know what your talking about.
 
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FyredUp

Moderator
Golly SPUSCG, seems to be no reason for me to comment about your armchair, wannabe, military expertise when an actual combat soldier in Iraq just told you you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on this topic.

Once again, remember I have not posted an opinion on what weapons our military should be using because I haven't been there and heaven't done that. Hm....kind of EXACTLY like you. Maybe in your XBox 360 you are an expert. Here, the real combat vets keep telling you that you are wrong and you keep insisting that those that have actually done it are wrong. Guess who I am going to listen to.
 
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Maximus856

New member
One last thing, I'm not saying the weapons (m14, shotgun, and other various weapons) don't have their place. They do, and to be honest where they are needed...they are there. However the topic at hand is the infantry, not special forces, DM's, and the like. The m4/m16a4 with 5.56 get the job done for the 03's and 11b's. The one m16 I'd like to see gone is the a2, however that has its place to for the paper pushers and fobbits.

-Max
 
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SPUSCG

New member
Real vets have told me they hate 556, some have said they like it, everyone will be split on this combat experience or not. One vet i knew hid his m14 during transition and carried it in vietnam until he left after being wounded in combat. Others will say the m4 is the utimate rifle. Fyred up, you can continue to like the m4, ill put it below others. Hey who wants to debate ammo type? i hate fmj. 9vs 45, guess where i stand.
 
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Maximus856

New member
Can somebody possibly shed some light on accountability during vietnam? I don't mean to discredit a Vet, but it seems like someone was stretching the truth on hiding their m14. If we're told we are turning something in....we are turning something in, there is no choice in it ESPECIALLY weapons. And no one in their right mind would hide a weapon in a warzone, seeing as you are in some SERIOUS trouble if you can't account for a weapon.
 
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Corpsman

New member
Yall have got to cut SPUSCG some slack. See, he just got back from Boarding Team (read mini-LEO school) School. It tends to make your head swell.My ex-brother-in-law had the same issues after he got back. In the Coast Guard, our combat experience, on average equates to engaging paper targets at 25 yards. Unless you are part of one of the LEO groups in the Guard. And for those paper bad guys, the AR platform works well, as does the 870 and the SIG. Its a bad day for the paper every 6 months qwhen we have to go to the range. The wooden target frames arent even safe, especially with the new guys.
 
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FyredUp

Moderator
SPUSCG:

Real vets have told me they hate 556, some have said they like it, everyone will be split on this combat experience or not. One vet i knew hid his m14 during transition and carried it in vietnam until he left after being wounded in combat. Others will say the m4 is the utimate rifle. Fyred up, you can continue to like the m4, ill put it below others. Hey who wants to debate ammo type? i hate fmj. 9vs 45, guess where i stand.
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See, here is the fallacy of your entire argument. You seem to think that second hand information, and the fact that you heard or read or for whatever reason have developed an opinion, somehow carries the same weight, or greater weight, than the actual combat vets on here. Sorry, not even remotely close. I will take the word of someone who has been there and done it in combat over someone who has shot the **** out of paper targets and hunted deer.

I don't believe I ever stated that I liked or disliked the M4 or the 5.56mm for actual combat use. If I did please quote me and i will apologize to you.

You can debate ammo type all you want. As long as the military stands fast on the FMJ agreement, even though they never signed it, there is no choice for combat rounds. Besides there really is no debate. If your opponent is wearing ballistic protection FMJ is the choice. If not either SP of HP are an option. Logistically, how to know which one to pick would be a nightmare.

9mm versus .45? Both will kill you in the hands of a skilled user. I have both myself and I don't feel undergunned with either one.
 
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SPUSCG

New member
Supposedly military forces can use jhp/jsp for counterterrorism operations, like hostage rescue. Right now, all we fight is terrorists, not a combatant uniformed army. The military can use any ammo theywant as they didnt sighn any treaty but even if they did we could use jsp ammo in iraq.

As for hiding a weapon, in vietnam you were out in jungles for weeks at a time. Its not uncommon to come back to base with damaged weapons or a captured enemy weapon when one broke. There was units of guys with random mixes of shotguns, grease guns m1 carbines aks you name it. Every once in a while the brass would get ****** and make them carry standard issue. Things are a lot more strict now but in the 60s you could get away with it
 
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FyredUp

Moderator
SPUSCG:

Supposedly military forces can use jhp/jsp for counterterrorism operations, like hostage rescue. Right now, all we fight is terrorists, not a combatant uniformed army. The military can use any ammo theywant as they didnt sighn any treaty but even if they did we could use jsp ammo in iraq.

As for hiding a weapon, in vietnam you were out in jungles for weeks at a time. Its not uncommon to come back to base with damaged weapons or a captured enemy weapon when one broke. There was units of guys with random mixes of shotguns, grease guns m1 carbines aks you name it. Every once in a while the brass would get ****** and make them carry standard issue. Things are a lot more strict now but in the 60s you could get away with it
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Do you see this? The word in bold red? Once again, you haven't got one damn clue whether what you wrote is right or not. You heard, supposedly, I think, in my opinion...no facts, just wannabe conjecture.

Now you are an expert on Viet Nam and what happened in country there? Does your military expertise have no bounds?
 
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SPUSCG

New member
Gotta go, Getting my select fire FAL in 375 H&H and manhole covers to go on a neighborood patrol....


Supposeddly is because treaties say we can do so but i don't know offical u.s. military policy on that clause, i would like to think they wouldnt use fmj for hostage rescue. Hey and fyred, you already said that the word of vets is a good source, thats where im getting it from.
 
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