Managed Recoil ammo for elk?

[davlandrum]

Been kicking this around in my head for a few days, did a search to no avail - so...

My oldest (14, about 90 lbs soaking wet) passed his hunter ed course. I am not sure he has the personality to hunt, but he wants to give it a try. So he is going to put in for a youth hunt cow elk tag with a really long season (1 Aug to 31 Dec) for the area I bowhunt elk. I know the area very well, and am confident I can get him within 100 yds of a cow elk even before archery season opens.

He has just started shooting .22s, and is doing well.

The hunt (if he gets drawn) would be closely monitored - I plan on being so close we might could share the same shirt.

I am thinking of stepping him up to my -06 with the managed recoil ammo, but am not sure about it's suitability for elk.

I could maybe swing buying a used rifle in another caliber, but having spent about a million dollars on "used once then forgotten" stuff (drums, keyboard, etc), would really prefer not to...

This would be Roosevelt elk in heavy cover (Oregon coast).

 

[Bigjfb]

Is it suitable for the boy would be my first question. If the boy can't fire them accurately nothing else matters. Countless Elk have fallen to 30-30, I am sure an 06 with reduced loads will do fine.

 

[bobelk99]

I have seen a few 'youngsters' take elk with a 270, and the reduced load 30-06 would be OK in controlled circumstances.

In your situation I would set limits before the start. Broadside only and 100 yards or less being 1 and 2.

To avoid fear of recoil, I would have him wear two (2) magnum PAST recoil shields, or equivalent, during preseason weapon familiarity stuff.

I have killed a few elk, and I have monitored a number of young hunters in elk management hunts. Confidence in and comfort with the gun is # 1.

 

[Mobuck]

elk ammo

I don't feel the bullets in the managed recoil ammo are adequate for elk. Even though the on paper energy is similar to the 30-30, the bullet is meant for use on deer sized game. Better figure a way to get some lighter handloads with a 150-165 Nosler partition. A 150 partition at 2200-2400 fps would be a much better choice w/o much recoil. Let the young shooter practice with the MR ammo and throw in some of the custom loads after he gets confident.

 

[.284]

Just throwing it out there....

If it's legal in the area you're hunting, what about a crossbow? You may have to get closer but, you said it's an area that you bow hunt anyway.

 

[banditt007]

here is my take... As the other poster said set the ground rules 100 yards or less and broadside keep it off the shoulder, try to do ribs. Make sure you son can shoot accurate with that gun/load and in 'hunting woods' type shooting conditions. What would be worse then not getting the elk would be injuring it!

As for the ammo, the options for the 30-06 are from remington, and federal. I would look into the federals (both the regular line and the 'fusion' line) over the remington. The reason is, is that each company takes a different approach to reducing recoil. Remington shoots a lighter than usual (125grain IIRC) bullet, whereas both models from federal shoot a 170 grain flat faced soft point bullet at lower velocity.....hmmm that sounds familiar....30-30 anyone?

For hunting deer i think either would work well, but for elk i'd feel much more comfortable with a slower heavier bullet, rather than a smaller faster one.

SPECIFICATIONS:
Mfg Item Num: RL30062
Category: AMMO CENTERFIRE
Caliber :30-06 Springfield
Bullet Type :Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point
Bullet Weight :125 GR
Muzzle Energy :1964 ft lbs
Muzzle Velocity :2660 fps



http://www.chuckhawks.com/federal_low_recoil.htm

 

[30-30remchester]

I have to agree with MOBUCK. I was an elk guide for 9 years and have seen over 100 elk taken. While the managed recoil 30-06 has the same power of the 30-30 I question the bullet. I have shot an elk with a 30-30 before and can attest to its limited range problem. However broadside 125 yard shots is maximum distance for a 30-30 IN MY OPINION but this should only be done with TOP quality 170 grain bullets. I am unfamiliar with the bullet the controlled recoil ammo has. Isnt it a 125 grain bullet? If so isnt the 125 grain 30 caliber Remington bullet a varmit bullet? Elk can be tough animals to take down. My suggestion is to have a professional reloader download a 30-06 using 150 grain Nosler Partions.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

He'll be fine if he hits what he's supposed to hit.

Contrary to popular internet belief, animals have not grown harder to kill over the last several decades.

Women, and anyone with an aversion to recoil, shoot elk with the lowly 243 on a regular basis, and with great success.

 

[telemark]

I am with Mobuck, get some custom light handloads using 150 or 165gr Partitions, and use the reduced recoil to practice with.

 

[FrankenMauser]

To avoid fear of recoil, I would have him wear two (2) magnum PAST recoil shields, or equivalent, during preseason weapon familiarity stuff.

Avoid excessive padding. It can train shooters to use poor posture and shooting technique; and gives the rifle a different feel.

Practice with minimal padding is fine. But, even more practice without padding needs to be done, as well.

 

[Colorado Redneck]

I know that some folks dislike Chuck Hawkes, but he makes some good points about the firepower required to take various game. Hawkes claims a minimum of 1200 ft lbs of energy is required to take elk. It goes without saying that you can't hit one in the leg and down it, so shot placement is king. If you can make or find a load with a good bullet that provides 1200 ft lbs at your maximum range, that should be good. Sectional density has some bearing too, so a 125 gr bullet in 30-06 is a bit dicey in my humble opinion. The 6.5 Swede is commonly used on lots of big game in Europe.

I ran into a Native American from the Pine Ridge Reservation out at the shooting range one day. He was fire forming some 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. I was trying some handloads in 25-06 for antelope. He was a good guy and we got to talking. He said he had taken nearly every big game animal in North America including buffalo and elk with his 257 Bob. Point is this...a good hunter can get the animal with well placed shots. I think a 6.5 has better sectional density than a 257, and thus would be a better choice.

One other little bit of trivia. I saw a survey of game wardens from Wyoming one time, that had the question: "What is the lightest caliber you have taken elk with?" Most common answer was 243.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I load a youth load I sell locally for the .30-06. It's a 130gr Barnes TSX loaded to 2750fps (2184 fpe) and has about 10lbs of free recoil. This load kills as well as any 30-06 yet recoils like a .243 Winchester, a 55% recoil reduction over a standard 30-06.

 

[publius]

above poster has got it, a light Barnes x will perform as good, or better than it's heavier lead counterpart with reduced recoil to boot.

 

[1911rocks]

Another Recoil Management approach

Does your State allow semi autos for Elk? If yes an AR10 or a LR308. Very light recoil about equal to a 243 in a heavy bolt action.

 

[crghss]

Now, while I'm not shooting Elk I started all the nieces and nephews with managed recoil ammo. It worked great, limits your range but under 200 yds I think it'd work great. You seem to have good control of the situation.

If you can move him up from the .22's to .243 to .257 calibers at the range, borrow or rent a gun, then the Managed recoil that you'll be using for hunting on subsequent trips. For the kids I worked with this seemed to work well. Less muzzle flash and recoil with smaller calibers. All kid's react differently. Some are so excited to shoot and the idea of going hunting that they ignore recoil or it doesn't bother them. Other's get spooked and the desire to hunt isn't strong enough to over come it.


But as a parent I'm sure you know all this.

 

[davlandrum]

Thanks for all the input.

A touch more background, as it appears needed. I am 150% about ethics, including being able to shoot accurately, range limits, correct shot placement, etc. I would prefer him to pass on every animal rather than take one marginal shot.

Does your State allow semi autos for Elk? If yes an AR10 or a LR308. Very light recoil about equal to a 243 in a heavy bolt action.

I'll get right on that....

My concern was exactly as pointed out in a few posts - quality of the bullet. It is not a varmit bullet, but is tailored for deer.

I will talk with my buddy who reloads and see if we can work up some reduced loads with better bullets.

Same buddy has a variety of rifles, so we can step him up through them. I am working on a possible borrow of a .257 Roberts.

But as a parent I'm sure you know all this.

Only thing I know for sure about parenting is that I don't know it all...

 

[ZeroJunk]

My thinking is that if you can get him within 100 yards of a cow and he makes a good broadside shot through the lungs the managed recoil loads will work just fine.

It is a pretty big leap, for instance, to get to something that you can shoot a big bull through the shoulder and still take out the lungs, or make a 400 yard shot, or other stuff they invented magnums for.

 

[taylorce1]

Dang Dave! Wish I lived closer you could borrow any rifle out of my safe you would want. I've got a .375 JDJ Encore that I think would be great for your needs. I know it sounds like a big rifle but I've got some 300 grain hard cast bullets being pushed by 14.8 grains of Trail Boss. This is a very mild recoiling round similar to a .30-30 or .35 Rem. At 100-125 yards I wouldn't be afraid of taking a shot on a cow elk.

 

[davlandrum]

Thanks for the offer !!

Other good thing is I have plenty of help on this adventure - hunting buddy (no kids of his own), Grandpa, etc....

 

[30-30remchester]

Does anyone here have ACTUAL experence with the Remington 125gn 30-06 bullets on game. I wonder how many people have actually shot an elk with this load? How can someone state it will be ok if it hasnt got a track record. I have in my recovered bullets taken from downed animals many bullets that failed to kill an elk. Remington bullets have a reputation of failure to penatrate. Last year a 270 Rem Core-Lokt bullet, 130 grn, completely desentagrate after 4" of penatration on a mule deer. An elk is a lot bigger and tougher. An old African saying I whole heartily agree with states "Hunting has two brothers, bullet placement and penatration". I have grave doubts about this particular bullet on animals larger than small whitetails, HOWEVER I dont have any personal experence.