madman discharges shotgun at my apt complex

garryc

New member
v from the Ohio Attoney generals handbook on CCW
Defense of Others
A person may defend another only if the protected person
would have had the right to use self-defense. Under Ohio law, a
person may defend family members, friends or strangers. However,
just as if he were protecting himself, a person cannot use any
more force than is reasonable and necessary to prevent the harm
threatened.
A defendant, who claims he used deadly force to protect
another, has to prove that he reasonably and honestly believed that
the person he protected was in immediate danger of serious bodily
harm or death and that deadly force was the only way to protect the
person from that danger. Furthermore, the defendant must also
show that the protected person was not at fault for creating the
situation and did not have a duty to leave or avoid the situation.
WARNING:
The law specifically discourages citizens from taking
matters into their own hands and acting as law enforcement
agents. This is true even if the person thinks he is performing a
good deed by protecting someone or helping law enforcement.
The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled that a person risks criminal
charges if he interferes in a struggle and protects the person who
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was at fault, even if he mistakenly believed that person did not
create the situation.
In other words, if you misinterpret a situation and interfere,
you may face criminal charges because your use of deadly force
is not justified. If you do not know all the facts and interfere,
you will not be justified to use force. It does not matter that you
mistakenly believed another was in danger and not at fault.
Of greater concern than risking criminal charges is the fact
that you may be putting yourself and others in danger. If you
use your handgun to interfere in a situation, and an officer
arrives on the scene, the officer will not be able to tell if you are
the criminal or if you are the Good Samaritan.
Ohio law does not encourage vigilantism. A license to
carry a concealed handgun does not deputize you as a law
enforcement agent. Officers are trained to protect members of
the community, handle all types of situations and enforce the
law. Do not allow the privilege to carry a concealed handgun
give you a false sense of security or empowerment. Let law
enforcement officers do their job. If you want to be a Good
Samaritan, call the police.
Conclusion: Self-Defense Issues
If the defendant fails to prove any one of the three conditions
for self-defense or defense of another, he fails to justify his use of
deadly force. If convicted, an individual will be sentenced accordingly.
Defense of Property
There must be immediate threat of serious bodily harm or
death in order to use deadly force. Protecting property alone does
not allow for the use of deadly force. Therefore, a property owner
may use reasonable, but not deadly, force when he honestly believes
that the force will protect his property from harm.
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If a person’s property is being attacked or threatened, he may
not use deadly force unless he reasonably believes it was the only
way to protect himself or another from being killed or receiving
serious bodily harm.
Deadly force can never be used to protect property only.
Deadly force can never be used solely to protect property no matter
where the threat to the property occurs.
Civil Liability
Even if the situation does not lead to criminal charges or result
in a criminal conviction, the accused may still face civil liability.
The victim or his survivors could sue the accused for the harm
from his use of deadly force. A “wrongful death” lawsuit is a
common legal action for money damages brought by the survivors
of a victim who was killed. The victim or his survivors must prove
that it is more probable than not that the defendant’s use of force
was inappropriate or excessive and it caused the victim’s injuries
or death. If this is proven, the victim or his survivors may be
entitled to recover money from the defendant as punishment and/or
compensation, even if the victim was breaking the law at the time
force was used against him.
The law requires that the force used must be reasonable and
necessary to prevent the danger. So even if the victim was wrong
and caused the situation, if the force was inappropriate or excessive
in a particular situation, the defendant risks criminal and/or
civil punishment.
Self-defense is an affirmative defense that a defendant may
assert against civil liability. The defendant must prove that he
reasonably believed that he or another was in immediate danger of
serious bodily harm or death, and he could only prevent the harm
by deadly force.
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Conclusion
Carrying a concealed handgun is a privilege that does not bring
with it the right to use deadly force. The appropriateness of using
any force depends on the specific facts of each and every situation.

So, in Ohio, if the woman had done anything to cause the incident, and you shot the perp, you are subject to procecution for a homocide. You must prove that she didn't start the incident. Now if you were defending your freind, who had no part in either starting the incident or helping the woman, then you could use that as an affermative defence. But note, the burden of proof is on you not the state
 

marlboroman84

New member
Kinda piggybacking on garryc here, but when I was in CCW class my instructor told a story about a scene he responded to once. A guy had shot another guy and killed him after he observed what appeared to be "the man push a woman up against a wall, then point a knife at her that had blood on it." The guy, thinking the woman was about to be killed, fired killing the guy almost instantly. Come to find out after the cops took statements, the lady was a crazy ex-g/f and was of the mind if she couldn't have this guy nobody could and had tried to kill him. This guy came along about a second after she stabbed the guy and was pulling the knife out. She admitted this to the police at the scene. The man that shot the other guy was not charged, because of Tennessee's "reasonable man" definition, but as my instructor said is he gonna face a civil suit? Probably. At the very least he has to deal with killing an innocent guy for the rest of his life.

That all being said Cosmo I think you did perfect. I think the one thing "most" people on TFL agree on is not to get involved in other people's business when it comes to CCW. If you see something happen from the very beginning I.E a guy walks into wal-mart while you're in line and starts blasting. Take him out by all means if you choose. However, if you come into the middle of something
unsure of what fully is going on, stay down until the gun is pointed at you and yours.
 

threegun

Moderator
My first priority is protecting my family and friends. If I can help a fellow citizen great. That said you did the right thing by not playing cop. Going outside to an unknown threat (unless necessary) is crazy. Help if you can just use your brain.......like you seem to have done.
 

Nigelcorn

New member
Yeah, you definitely did the right thing. It is great to try and help others out, but if you have a couple of hand guns and the shooter has a shotgun...I don't like the odds.
 

simplekindaman

New member
well, i have a story i think might tie in.
last july my neighbors house cought on fire.
the husband, and grandfather, was apparently still in his room, while his wife made it out with their grandson. i told my brother to call the fire deoartment, now, and took off across the lawn. despite everything everyone has told me since i was 5 years old, i decided to go into the house and get that man out.

dumb idea. the front door was already burning, so i decided to go in through the garage. i opened the door and got a good lung full of burning furniture smoke. it was solid smoke, so i decided ill try his bedroom window instead. i grabbed the nearest solid object nest to me(a shovel), and proceeded to knock out a window and drag this ma to his saftey.

he was in the back yard trying to save the house with a water hose.

i spent the next two weeks coughing my lungs out till my throat bled. had i entered the building, dressed in my protective swim trunks and bare feet, i would probably had suffocated or burned. if i had tried to break inthe window, i would probably be cut to ribins by the brkoen glass, as i was only wearing nylon shorts(which if contacted fire would have been very, very ugly).

so, what i mean is, make sure yourself is safe, and you know what your doing. if you cant take care of yourself, then you wont be able to take care of anyone else.
you did fine, friend, and noone died, it was a good day.
 

azurefly

Moderator
trip20 said:
Who are you kidding? You're already knowingly steering this towards thread closure.


So... while I'm known for being outspoken, even a bit too outspoken, you actually suspect me of deliberately trying to bring about the end of my being able to speak my views on this subject?

I'm telling you I wanted not to get the thread closed, and you essentially are calling me a liar.

What, I can't speak my opinion that the cops have no valid excuse for taking 20 minutes to get to a SHOTGUN SHOOTING? :barf:


-azurefly
 
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hot sauce

New member
The reason it took 20+ minutes is simple. It sounds like you do not live in the best part of town. I lived in the not so great part of town "ghetto" up until a few months ago. It was pretty scary sometimes esp. new years eve. Boom...Boom...wait was that last one a gunshot? All of my guns were loaded at all times because home invasions are an everyday thing there. A few guy's were shot one time and it took the cops three hours to get there. My advice to you is to move. I left that all of that behind me and moved to the peacefull country.
 

JIH

New member
You did the right thing and all you really could have done.

Now, do another right thing.... move :D
 
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