madman discharges shotgun at my apt complex

cosmolinelover

New member
So its around 7pm, yesterday evening. I've just returned from the University and I'm currently waiting for my buddy to show up. We've got a big test to study for. I'm chatting with the apartment manager in my apartment when we hear some odd noises. We step outside and there's some kind of commotion going on about 5 doors down from mine. I ignore it as just another crazy drunken meth head thug acting inappropriately (sadly thats the status quo around here these days) and I step back inside my apartment.

Moments later I hear a loud BANG and right away my stomach drops, this was no firecracker, something was definately wrong. Next thing my phone is ringing and its my buddy and he tells me he's huddled behind a trash dumpster out front and as far as he can tell someone just discharged a shotgun in the parking lot. At this point we don't know whats going on, only that its not good, and my buddy needs to get out of the potential line of fire. So we choreograph a way for him to make it to my front door with out putting himself in the line of fire (as best as we can at least) and he gets inside. At that point he tells me that as he was walking up to my apartment he witnessed a man toting a shotgun and pointing it at a group of people threatening to "kill them all" (in more colorful thug terms).

So I get to the safe, grab my Glock 22 and give it to my buddy (he being a veteran seemed a lot calmer than me about the situation), and I upgrade to a Beretta since the kel-tec in my hip is feeling mighty small considering there's a guy blasting a shotgun outfront.

At this point, we don't know if anyone has been wounded, or whether the guy is still out there or not. I call the police and they seem more concerned if someone has been shot as opposed to someone currently shooting. But nonetheless they say they're on their way.

So I call the apartment manager, knowing he was outside during the incident, to get a report. He tells me the wacko got in his truck and drunkenly drove away. We check the scene once we know its clear, and it apperas no one was hurt, wherever the man shot he didn't apparently hit anyone (that we know about).

20+ minutes later the Police show up, they take a statement from the men outside, never bother to talk to me or my buddy who witnessed the incident. And before you know it they're gone.

After the fact I found out the guy was apparently beating his wife, and threatening to kill her, apparently she escaped the apartment and began pounding on people's doors for help. Then when she got the necessary attention the BG came out and threatened to kill the people attempting to come to her aid (and yes he pointed the shotgun at all of them).

I'm still shaken up about this incident. I know I probably did a million things wrong yesterday but I'm just glad no one was hurt. In retrospect I keep thinking other courses of action would've been more appropriate, like defending the people in the line of fire (which we both knew were there). However at the time it seemed illogical to even look out my window and potentially open myself up to fire.

I have no doubt that had I been outside at the time I would have had no choice but to defend myself and everyone else around me. However I chose to stay inside, and ultimately I could have failed in protecting others.

I don't know what else to say, other than I'm really shaken up about the incident. I hope I did the right thing, it sure seemed at the time the best thing to do was to take cover and stay safe. I'd like to think that if the situation would have progressed further I would have taken action, but now I'm second guessing myself. Getting in a gun fight is just not something that I find very appealing.

Let me know what you guys think, what you would have done, whether what I did was the safe thing or the lame thing. I don't know what would have happened had I been outside or had my buddy been armed (he usually is), but it could've played out far worse I guess.

-Cosmo
 
Sounds to me like you did alright. The only hting i would have done different is if the shooter left in a vehicle i would have tried to get a license number/vehicle descrption to the cops.

SW
 

springmom

New member
You did well. You did what you needed to do (got your friend inside safely), called the police, called the apartment manager. You did NOT play Superman, for which you get a round of applause.

Good job.

Springmom
 

bartonkj

New member
Don't feel bad about not runnning to the rescue. While we cannot rely on LEOs to be there when we as individuals need protection - and therefore, we must protect ourselves, that doen't necessarily mean you should put yourself in harm's way to protect those you don't know in a tactical situation like you describe and for which you aren't prepared. In addition to the potential for physical harm to yourself by running out to confront someone - you have very real potential legal consequences you may face afterwards. Please don't misunderstand me. I very much believe in helping others in need and I'm not saying just ignore it and it will go away or just ignore it because its none of your business. But something like what you described is better left alone except for calling the police and gathering as much information as possible (which you did).
 

Trip20

New member
I'm still shaken up about this incident. I know I probably did a million things wrong yesterday but I'm just glad no one was hurt.
Glad things turned out alright. That's definitely a frightening situation to say the least.

In retrospect I keep thinking other courses of action would've been more appropriate, like defending the people in the line of fire (which we both knew were there). However at the time it seemed illogical to even look out my window and potentially open myself up to fire.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I know we all like to think we'll swing in and save the day, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

I'll go out on a limb and assume this gave you an even greater respect for the LEO's that confront this sort of thing head-on each and every day. I don't want their job, nuh uh.

...I upgrade to a Beretta since the kel-tec in my hip is feeling mighty small...

Do you think this experience will make you reconsider what you carry? I'm not baiting with this question, I have no particular loyalty to any caliber or firearm, I'm just curious.
 

john in jax

New member
Just my proverbial 2 cents but I think your (CCW) gun is for protecting YOU and yours, not the neighborhood or apartment complex. I mean if a situation arises and you need to defend yourself or others, that is one thing - - defend away. BUT I (emphasis on the "me", personally) do not feel the need to "go out" and protect others.

There was some uncommon roudiness going on across the street last night - -with today's youth I couldn't tell if it was good or bad shouting, so I checked my .45 and was VERY alert/watchful from INSIDE my house until some vehicles left and everything got real quiet again (situation normal). I think you did the right thing, sit tight and leave the protecting to the LEO's.
 

azurefly

Moderator
20+ minutes later the Police show up, they take a statement from the men outside, never bother to talk to me or my buddy who witnessed the incident. And before you know it they're gone.


This thread has "cop-bashing" in its destiny, I'm almost sure of it.

I myself feel the desire to do some bashing after the above nugget (which just proves once again to me that we are on our own, and should never expect cops to come rushing to our aid, even when the call is about a shotgun fired). But I'm not going to go into a diatrible and get the thread closed. Suffice it to say that i think the above description speaks volumes.

After the fact I found out the guy was apparently beating his wife, and threatening to kill her, apparently she escaped the apartment and began pounding on people's doors for help. Then when she got the necessary attention the BG came out and threatened to kill the people attempting to come to her aid (and yes he pointed the shotgun at all of them).

I wonder if these are people who own guns; and if they don't, did this make them consider doing so.


-azurefly
 
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ITEOTWAWKI

Moderator
Why does it take 20+ minutes for the police to arrive to reports of gunshots!? I HATE that. (Especially when they can respond within 2 minutes for anything else)
 

azurefly

Moderator
I'll go out on a limb and assume this gave you an even greater respect for the LEO's that confront this sort of thing head-on each and every day. I don't want their job, nuh uh.

iteotwawki said:
Why does it take 20+ minutes for the police to arrive to reports of gunshots!? I HATE that. (Especially when they can respond within 2 minutes for anything else)

Maybe it has something to do with them confronting this sort of thing head-on each and every day. Maybe they're fed up, and just want to avoid confrontation now.
 

ITEOTWAWKI

Moderator
If they're tired of protecting and serving then perhaps they can go deliver pizzas. What if someone had been shot? What if it had been your loved one hit and bleeding but it took 20+ minutes for help to arrive. Being tired of the grind is no excuse for taking this bloody long. NOT ACCEPTABLE. Moreso if they were simply 'tired of it'. What the heck kind of attitude is that?
 

cosmolinelover

New member
This thread has no intention of cop bashing at all, I was merely dictating what happened as I perceived it. It does however re-enforce the idea that we are all on our own, but I never stopped believing that anyway.

I'll go out on a limb and assume this gave you an even greater respect for the LEO's that confront this sort of thing head-on each and every day. I don't want their job, nuh uh.

I agree with you 100% Trip, I have the utmost respect for what our LEO's do for us. They put themselves in harms way for the good of the public self-lessly everyday.

That being said, I think there are significant bureaucratic problems with the police administration, otherwise I have no doubt those guys would have been out here much quicker. It comes down to what the dispatchers tell them to do, and what to prioritize. I doubt any LEO sits in his car and hears the call "shots fired" only to sit and wait a while to respond.
 

azredhawk44

Moderator
You did perfectly.

You got your friend inside safely.

You aren't parking lot security. You aren't deputized law enforcement. To be honest, you knew of an altercation from which you were currently safe. Going outside to engage the bad guy could be construed by some folks as premeditated murder... depends on a blue county / red county type of thing.

You got good hardware into your hands and somebody else's that you trust, and secured what you feasibly could within your realm of responsibility. Good on you.

Have a beer tonite with your buddy and relax... after all, you earned it after that.
 

azurefly

Moderator
ITEOTWAWKI, I was not offering my post as a true rationale for the delay; I was being cynical in offering that explanation.

I agree with you.


There is not much that should excuse the cops taking 20 minutes to arrive on scene, unless a) the incident took place in a remote, rural location b) a large part of the on-shift police force was occupied with a different, major incident and had to be diverted from way across town, or couldn't leave right away due to the priority of the first call c) there was serious inclement weather impeding progress of the responding officers. (Anyone else, chime in with other reasonable excuses I may have overlooked.)

-azurefly
 

john in jax

New member
Just my proverbial 2 cents but I think your (CCW) gun is for protecting YOU and yours, not the neighborhood or apartment complex. I mean if a situation arises and you need to defend yourself or others, that is one thing - - defend away. BUT I (emphasis on the "me", personally) do not feel the need to "go out" and protect others.

There was some uncommon roudiness going on across the street last night - -with today's youth I couldn't tell if it was good or bad shouting, so I checked my .45 and was VERY alert/watchful from INSIDE my house until some vehicles left and everything got real quiet again (situation normal). I think you did the right thing, sit tight and leave the protecting to the LEO's.
 

Trip20

New member
I know that on the individual officer level, for the most part these guys have no problem putting their life in danger for perfect strangers -- and it's just part of the gd job.

Why don't we talk about that aspect for once?

That is the aspect of law enforcement my comment brought to the discussion. But (not) surprisingly enough we're veering towards crap discussion about how cops suck.

But I'm not going to go into a diatrible and get the thread closed.

Who are you kidding? You're already knowingly steering this towards thread closure.
 
A lot of times 911 operators don't take you seriously unless you are hysterical and jabbering on about the situation or if they can actually hear gunshots on the phone. It's hard for them to believe that civilians can be calm in a dangerous situation so unless you are flipping out, they probably figure you are overreacting to fireworks or something simmilar.

Don't be afraid to scream: "Oh #$%$! He shootin'!" that's what they are used to hearing in such situations.
 

hehz0r

New member
Yeah, part of the problem might be too many people crying wolf, I have a friend who had a neighbor calling cops on occasion whenever they heard a very loud noise. If you are living in a rougher section of town, you might have trouble getting assistance simply because they get too many complaints that they can't follow up on. Obviously it isn't good, but what can you do besides provide for yourself?
 

armedandsafe

New member
I have asked a question in every class I have taught concerning this type of scenario.

You hear gunfire. You go to the window of your second-floor apartment and see a child lying in the center courtyard, bleeding. Out of the corner of your eye, you see a muzzle-flash and another child falls. Turning toward that flash, you see someone with a rifle, aiming down to the courtyard. Because that person is to your right and almost in the same plane as your window, you lean out to get a clear shot. Someone across the courtyard from you shoots you, because he "saw someone with a gun." You complain that he shot the wrong person.

Qustion: Were you about to shoot at "someone with a gun" without positively verifying that that is the right shooter?

Pops
 
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