machine gun Kelly

T

toybox99615

New member
Going back to the 1930 era of the machine gun gangster. Machine gun Kelley is reported to have used model 1911 45 ACP pistols that had been modified to go full auto till the custom drum magazines emptied. Is this a fact or urban myth.


This story has been told a number of time by a gunsmith I know. He has a couple of sketches of parts that are suppose to be Kelly's design. But they are really rough sketches. It would be interesting to know a bit more about the weapons Kelly used.
 
S

Scorch

New member
I had never heard that about his 1911s, as I was under the impression he used a Thompson, and it would seem somewhat unlikely, since a 1911 would be very hard to control in full auto. But I'm sure it's possible.

FWIW, there were several modifications circulated over the years about making a 1911 full auto, but the main complaint from people who have tested them is that only the first round goes where you want it to go.
 
H

Hawg

New member
I never heard that about that fellow, though. As far as I know he used Thompsons, regular 1911s, and various other standard arms of the time.
Click to expand...

He was a two bit bank robber and whiskey runner till his wife bought him a Thompson and gave him the nick "Machine Gun" to make him sound bad. His big claim to fame was a big name kidnapping(her idea) that got them both busted. He was sentenced to life and died in prison.
 
N

nate45

New member
I believe it was the Dillinger Gang that had a full auto 1911. You can see it in this photo fitted with a Thompson grip and flash suppresor.

DILLINGER.JPG
 
T

toybox99615

New member
Dillinger weapons display

I like the FBI display of the Dillinger weapons. Although they do not go into much detail on the weapons themselves; how they were modified for example. They do say the one 1911 with the front grip and large magazine was modified. They say nothing about the other 1911.

Anybody ever hear the name of the gunsmith these boys were using. I've read statements and accounts that there was one gunsmith who did a great deal of the work on the pistols and other weapons used by the Chicago crews.
 
T

toybox99615

New member
all five

I saw all the 1911's when I went to the FBI site. I only saw commentary on the one with the front pistol grip from a Tommy. Did I miss some thing about the other five? I guess Dillinger was a strong advocate for the 1911.
 
B

Bill DeShivs

New member
I believe there was also an Ithaca Auto-Burglar gun used in the St. Valentine's day massacre.
Machine gun Kelley was finally captured at a house in Memphis. He offered no resistance.
 
H

Hawg

New member
Did I miss some thing about the other five?
Click to expand...

I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying there was another modified 1911. I wonder if the one in the shoulder holster was carried like that or if they just stuck it in there for the display. I have a holster like it that belonged to my grandfather, it's a revolver holster.
 
J

James K

Member In Memoriam
Several of the gangs of that period got weapons by raiding NG armories, so the 1911 pistol may have been used simply because that was what they stole. Gangs did buy guns, and steal them from police and others, so they weren't limited to military guns. Of course, for much of that period, TSMGs were available from a few hardware and sporting goods stores, though they were very expensive and only a very few stores had them. (In 1928, a M1921 TSMG with one 20 round magazine was $200, equivalent to over $6000 today. With a dealer price of $175, not many "mom and pop" stores carried them.)

Guns like the BAR and Colt Monitor were not that available even before the 1934 NFA. Note in that picture, that there is only one TSMG; the other long guns are/were regular sporting guns.

FWIW, I have fired a full auto .45 pistol, with a stock, and IMHO it is totally useless, not to mention deafening. The muzzle is only about 6" from the left ear when fired with the stock, and the noise and blast is very bad. I suspect that the pistol with the forward grip was more effective psychologically than it was as a practical weapon.

Jim
 
D

Double Naught Spy

New member
Going back to the 1930 era of the machine gun gangster. Machine gun Kelley is reported to have used model 1911 45 ACP pistols that had been modified to go full auto till the custom drum magazines emptied.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it is true or not, but from what is being described, fully auto until empty, it sounds like the gun was set up for slam fire with the firing pin fixed to protrude through the breech face. Every time the gun goes into battery with a live round, it will fire and continue to fire until the ammo is exhausted.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
Can't verify, but...

I have heard the full auto 1911 gun from the Dillinger collection is actually a .38 Super.

Never heard of one being used by Machine gun Kelly. He got his nickname from his fondness for the Thompson SMG.
 
H

Hawg

New member
He got his nickname from his fondness for the Thompson SMG.
Click to expand...

His wife gave him his name and the Thompson. http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/kelly/kelly.htm

Kelly was born in Tennessee in 1897, and spent his early years in modest surroundings. He attended public schools before becoming a salesman and, later, a bootlegger. He married Kathryn Thorne in 1927. She encouraged Kelly to become deeply involved in a life of crime, bought him a machine gun, and gave him the nickname, "Machine Gun." He concentrated on running illegal alcohol and also robbed some banks prior to the Urschel kidnapping.
 
T

toybox99615

New member
slam fire

If Dillinger's 1911 had been modified to slam fire by fixing the firing pin to a protruding position would he have been able to use the triger to start/stop to firing? Or would he have had to have the slide back and release it to begin the sequence that would only end when the magazine was empty?

I've read on a few of the 1911 sites where the military had modified 1911's to be full automatics. The modified 1911 was never put into production as the Thompson was adopted by the military. Perhaps there were a few modified 1911 that managed to get into the hands of a gunsmith that could duplicate the military modifications.

Looking a Dillinger modified 1911 makes me believe it would have been a real challange to maintain any kind of control while it was in firing in full auto mode.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top