M1 Garand
- Thread starter rebs
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For the Service Rifle National Match Course (NMC) and related competitions, the targets were originally for 200, 300 and 600 yards. There are reduced versions, though. I have a PDF file I put together for sighting and checking sight come-ups at 100 yards, based on the standard 100-yard reduced target dimensions. They can be printed and fired on. I included lines to locate elevation POI for several ammunition and bullet types. I did not include windage offsets for spin drift at long ranges. I may do that sometime.
HXP seems to shoot like M2 Ball in that the grouping indicates bullets that sometimes differ significantly from one to the next. I've also found with M2 that the crimps pressed into the bullets are sometimes more symmetrical than others and are sometimes deeper than others, leaving different amounts of bearing surface intact. If you get lucky, you get some rounds where the bullets are more similar and more symmetrically crimped from one to the next than average and that therefore shoot tighter groups in any rifle than other examples do. The only way I know to guarantee the bullets are decent is to pull them, pour out the powder and clean out any pitch seal inside the case necks with mineral spirits, resize the neck, re-dispense the powder at the average charge weight you measured pouring powder out, and seat some better quality bullets in place of the originals. I did this with M2 for a long time for local matches. I've never done it for HXP, as I've never had more than a few hundred rounds of it, but I assume the situation is the same.
Bases of some pulled M2 Ball bullets from same ammo can:
HXP seems to shoot like M2 Ball in that the grouping indicates bullets that sometimes differ significantly from one to the next. I've also found with M2 that the crimps pressed into the bullets are sometimes more symmetrical than others and are sometimes deeper than others, leaving different amounts of bearing surface intact. If you get lucky, you get some rounds where the bullets are more similar and more symmetrically crimped from one to the next than average and that therefore shoot tighter groups in any rifle than other examples do. The only way I know to guarantee the bullets are decent is to pull them, pour out the powder and clean out any pitch seal inside the case necks with mineral spirits, resize the neck, re-dispense the powder at the average charge weight you measured pouring powder out, and seat some better quality bullets in place of the originals. I did this with M2 for a long time for local matches. I've never done it for HXP, as I've never had more than a few hundred rounds of it, but I assume the situation is the same.
Bases of some pulled M2 Ball bullets from same ammo can:
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Jbar4Ranch
New member
I bought a Field Grade from CMP last month - Springfield made in May '45, rebarreled in July '63, excellent numbers of ME 1+ & TE 1+. Recommended M1 reloads with IMR4895 and 150 grain BT match bullets wouldn't group any better than around 6" at 100 yards with the stock battle sights. Eventually, I tried some 168 grain Nosler match BT's, and groups shrunk to around 1 3/4" with the NRA recommended load of 47.0 grains IMR4895 and CCI200's, but about 4" high even with the rear sight all the way down.
Someone may have filed the front sight down. 4" high is about right for a 6:00 hold on a standard target. With standard sights, the 150s should be in the middle of a standard target using a 6:00 hold with 9 to 11 clicks of elevation plus a little white space, and some reduce the front sight to produce that when turned down all the way.
Take the rear sight rack off by running the sight up enough to get your thumb behind it and popping the cover off. Once loose, you will see the bottom of the rack has a segment where the teeth stop and it is solid. This is to prevent soldiers accidentally turning the sight adjustment up so high in the heat of combat that the sight comes out and they lose it. You probably don't have to worry about that, so you can actually remove the toothless segment to give yourself a few more clicks of down adjustment. Try just filing the bottom corner off of it first. I don't recall it being hardened like the base, but if your file won't touch it, a Dremel cutoff wheel will. Then put it back together and see how many more clicks down you get.
As far as grouping, many of the 147 grain 7.62 NATO BT bullets I've seen are just terribly inaccurate if that is what you have. If your muzzle erosion is at all asymmetrical, boat tails will be more sensitive to it than flat base bullets, so try some of the latter. The Hornady 150 grain boattails have worked well for me, but I know my crown is essentially perfect.
Take the rear sight rack off by running the sight up enough to get your thumb behind it and popping the cover off. Once loose, you will see the bottom of the rack has a segment where the teeth stop and it is solid. This is to prevent soldiers accidentally turning the sight adjustment up so high in the heat of combat that the sight comes out and they lose it. You probably don't have to worry about that, so you can actually remove the toothless segment to give yourself a few more clicks of down adjustment. Try just filing the bottom corner off of it first. I don't recall it being hardened like the base, but if your file won't touch it, a Dremel cutoff wheel will. Then put it back together and see how many more clicks down you get.
As far as grouping, many of the 147 grain 7.62 NATO BT bullets I've seen are just terribly inaccurate if that is what you have. If your muzzle erosion is at all asymmetrical, boat tails will be more sensitive to it than flat base bullets, so try some of the latter. The Hornady 150 grain boattails have worked well for me, but I know my crown is essentially perfect.
I have a Springfield, Inc. Garand, mix of commercial and G.I. parts, and 3MOA is about right.
I didn't notice much difference between 150gr loads cranked-out in quantity, and careful loading of 168 Match Kings in prepped brass (separated by headstamp, uniform flash holes and primer pockets, etc.).
I didn't notice much difference between 150gr loads cranked-out in quantity, and careful loading of 168 Match Kings in prepped brass (separated by headstamp, uniform flash holes and primer pockets, etc.).
RickB,
At the other extreme, when I got my DCM program Garand (also S.A.) in the '80s, I accurized it and with 47.5 grains of IMR4064 over 168-grain SMK's, in the prone position using a sling, my first group from it was 10 shots into 0.75" c-t-c at 100 yards. So the old warhorse can be made to shoot, though that took some bedding and other work to make happen.
I've seen issue Garands shoot about 2 moa before with the old National Match ammunition, so some of this is the condition of the barrel and luck of the draw on stock fit and so-on.
At the other extreme, when I got my DCM program Garand (also S.A.) in the '80s, I accurized it and with 47.5 grains of IMR4064 over 168-grain SMK's, in the prone position using a sling, my first group from it was 10 shots into 0.75" c-t-c at 100 yards. So the old warhorse can be made to shoot, though that took some bedding and other work to make happen.
I've seen issue Garands shoot about 2 moa before with the old National Match ammunition, so some of this is the condition of the barrel and luck of the draw on stock fit and so-on.