Los Angeles Councilman would make failure to report gun loss a crime

[Chuck Dye]

City Councilman Jack Weiss, chairman of the Public Safety Committee, said he would introduce a city ordinance today that would call for the prosecution of gun owners who don't report stolen or missing weapons within 48 hours. Conviction would be a misdemeanor.

"It is my goal that the ordinance will make a modest but important dent in gun violence," Weiss said, explaining that it would help aid the Los Angeles Police Department in its crime investigations. "When your gun is lost or stolen, you report it in 48 hours or you can go to jail."

Similar laws exist in the Bay Area cities of San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley.



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/l...a-commun-los_angeles_metro&ctrack=1&cset=true

 

[TheBluesMan]

First off, why *wouldn't* you report a gun lost or stolen?

Secondly, this sounds like a good way to turn a theft victim into a criminal. :barf:

 

[MidnightRambler]

I agree. The first thing I'd to would be to call the police and report a lost gun. Guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. I don't really have a problem with failure to report one being lost being a crime either.

 

[Edison Carter]

And if you don't even KNOW a gun has been stolen, you are a criminal.

Sweet.

Just more crap to potentially grind lawful people into the gears of abusive laws.

EC

 

[MidnightRambler]

Now, the part about being a criminal if you don't know a gun was stolen is pure b.s. I agree with that.

 

[OneInTheChamber]

Wow, guess that shoots down my "lost in a tragic, tragic boating accident years ago" answer to when the gun confiscation comes to my door......

 

[Chuck Dye]

My thanks to whoever edited my thread title. It was needed. I promise to be more diligent in using the preview in the future.

 

[Radiki]

If the part about being charged without knowledge of the theft is true, I would be against the law. But honestly, out of all the farfetched and inane bills that have come before legislation in the US concering firearms, I would have to agree with this in concept. But I think that the owner should want to report it missing anyways. However, I do believe that if you have knowledge of any stolen property, regardless of it being a firearm, hammer, or a car, and you did not report it, would you not be charged with being an accessory to a crime if that stolen property was used illegally? So, personally, I would support the bill if it were written to the effect of: You are charged with having full knowledge of stolen property without reporting it to proper authorities.

Besides, I am all for supporting everyone's rights, but if you didn't at least make a phone call to let the police know that your gun got stolen and is probably in the hands of a criminal,and therefore at least give them a chance to find it before a crime has been commited; I don't think you are responsible enough to own a firearm.... but that is just my opinion.

 

[Edison Carter]

So if someone steals a hammer from my garage, you figure I SHOULD know about it, and I am an accessory when some crackhead crunches in another crackhead's skull with it?

"Give the police a chance to find it before a cime is committed?" How exactly do they do that? Will they put up roadblocks and search everyone for ten blocks around? I've called police on thefts, with a genuine suspect in mind, and gotten a shrug and an eye roll, and a "whaddya expect us to do?" sneering response. Silly me, calling police for a theft.

Anybody here take a daily tally of every weapon in your safe or closet, every tool in your garage, every knife in your kitchen?

Anybody have a summer home you do not check on for weeks or even months at a time? Anybody have a spare car or ATV or motorcycle that might disappear and you won't know for a while?

Reporting a stolen object seems remarkably obvious, but applying criminal penalties to such a failure is similar to charging you as an accesory if some felon breaks into your cabin in the woods for his rape/murder hideout, for a few days.

If you discover a burglary of your home after a week's vacation, any of you self righteous posters think that officer Friendly won't start making accusations and arrest YOU JUST BECAUSE HE CAN?!



EC

 

[Wildalaska]

So where is the reasoned argument against the law? If we all agree that a gun owner SHOULD report a stolen gun, why shouldnt criminal penalties adhere to one who doesnt?

WildknejerkemotionoutAlaska

 

[Odd Job]

@ Edison Carter

So if someone steals a hammer from my garage, you figure I SHOULD know about it, and I am an accessory when some crackhead crunches in another crackhead's skull with it?

That's not a good analogy. The nature of the gun is such that you would be interested in its whereabouts and retention at all times. A hammer is something that even a kid can buy and use and throw away in the trash after he has finished with it.
There are other items that would have to be reported if found missing, such as certain IDs, medicines and hazardous materials.
Let me ask you this: if you were out for a walk and you saw a hammer on the ground would you hand that in to the police? What if you found a gun?
What is different about those scenarios? You KNOW that the gun shouldn't be there. The fact that it is there means somebody screwed up. There is a lot more responsibility involved in gun ownership than tool ownership.

 

[tyme]

That's not a good analogy. The nature of the gun is such that you would be interested in its whereabouts and retention at all times.

Be careful not to imbue guns with an importance they do not deserve.

I'm interested in the whereabouts of a number of my possessions at all times, but not to the point of being neurotic about them. Maybe I should be held criminally responsible if I fail to report a copy of Machiavelli's The Prince falling into the wrong hands? Or perhaps Hayek? Is my laptop a veritable weapon of mass destruction? Should I get it registered and keep it chained to my wrist?

Hmm... it's not even required to report a car stolen, is it?

 

[whitebb]

The criminal knows the gun is stolen (he stole it), and anyone who buys it from him will probably know its stolen. If the Police are aware the gun is stolen, it will not stop the crime from happening. Nothing here is accomplished except prosecution af a legal gun owner who may not know the gun is stolen.
Of course, as soon as the gun is noticed missing, its time to call the cops. It will at least absolve you of any/most problems that may occur after its theft.
I am not an expert. My 0.02 worth.

 

[Bender711]

well, my dad has a lot of guns. To the point of a friend mentioning a gun that he bought years ago and him saying "I've got a python! cool! I've always wanted one!" so what if you have to many guns and they steal one that you didnt even know that you still had.

 

[Odd Job]

@ tyme

Be careful not to imbue guns with an importance they do not deserve.

Well maybe we have a different outlook on this. But to me my pistols are a necessary defensive item. I need them and I depend on them when I am in SA. I would say the importance of those guns ranks right up there with my passport and my radiation monitoring badge. I secure all three of those items when not being carried, and if I was to lose any of those three it would be in my interest to report that. It isn't the same as losing a valuable book or even a sack of money, after all what mischief can be caused by somebody who steals your book?

I can't see the big deal about having to report a lost gun.

 

[rhgunguy]

Sounds like common sense (I can't belive I am saying that aobut a gun law from LA) . All you have to do is report it stolen. Would you prefer that instead of a slap on the wrist they charge you with any crimes that may be commited with the gun?

 

[44 AMP]

Why?

Why should there be punishment? Why should an otherwise blameless citizen go to jail? If there must be punishment, why not just a fine? You have already lost your property.

It must be because you are guilty of putting a dangerous weapon on the street. You deliberatly let your weapon be stolen, and by not reporting it within an abritrary time period, you have caused a danger to the police and your fellow citizens.

After all, if you hadn't been so irresponsible as to have a dangerous weapon in the first place, the whole thing never would have happened! You must be punished!

I find the proposed law insulting.

 

[rhgunguy]

The one thing that gun ownership stands for (to me) is personal responsibility. It dosen't make you a criminal if you just report the theft. How hard is that?!?! This law is about taking responsibility for having allowed you property to be stolen. This law could even prevent the lawful owner from being prosecuted for a crime he/she did not commit. It is not insulting, it is common sense.

 

[Glock 31]

Why wouldn't you report it? It's common sense.

This law is about taking responsibility for having allowed you property to be stolen.

No, this law is about bringing a crime to the attention of the authorities, and covering you own butt in case that weapon is used in a future crime. Saying the gun owner is at fault for letting his gun get stolen, is like saying drunk driving victims are at fault for being in the way of the drunk driver. No matter how secure someone's home or property might be, there will always be a thief who can breach that security.

What if your on vacation for a week, and your gun is stolen from your home, then used in a crime before you get back. Will that penalize the theft victim under this law?

 

[Radiki]

So if someone steals a hammer from my garage, you figure I SHOULD know about it, and I am an accessory when some crackhead crunches in another crackhead's skull with it?

I didn't say you SHOULD know about it. I said if you DID know about it. To quote myself:

You are charged with having full knowledge of stolen property without reporting it to proper authorities.

That means, you KNOW that a piece of property was STOLEN.
If you can't find something in your garage, It might be lost. If you come out to your vehicle to a broken window and a bunch of stuff missing, it was stolen. I don't think many of us would "lose" a gun.

That's not a good analogy. The nature of the gun is such that you would be interested in its whereabouts and retention at all times. A hammer is something that even a kid can buy and use and throw away in the trash after he has finished with it.
There are other items that would have to be reported if found missing, such as certain IDs, medicines and hazardous materials.
Let me ask you this: if you were out for a walk and you saw a hammer on the ground would you hand that in to the police? What if you found a gun?
What is different about those scenarios? You KNOW that the gun shouldn't be there. The fact that it is there means somebody screwed up. There is a lot more responsibility involved in gun ownership than tool ownership.

You are right that if I found a gun on the ground, I would report it to the police. But in my job, If I found a hammer laying on the floor I would put it in it's appropiate place and make a note in the security log. Why wouldn't I call the police for the hammer? because it is a hammer on the floor of a building that is constantly being maintained so tools get lost. But If I had a previous report of a theft from a toolbox and then found the hammer from that toolbox. I probably would call the police since I am now in possesion of stolen property and need to cover myself and the company from civil suits.

"Give the police a chance to find it before a cime is committed?" How exactly do they do that? Will they put up roadblocks and search everyone for ten blocks around? I've called police on thefts, with a genuine suspect in mind, and gotten a shrug and an eye roll, and a "whaddya expect us to do?" sneering response. Silly me, calling police for a theft.

No, but you are taking what I said to an extreme level. What if there had been a rash of burgleries in the area but the police have been unable to find the perp. Maybe some evidence they need might be at your house or vehicle... A fingerprint, a foot print, Video from the atm across the street, a witness who until being questioned thought that guy in your backyard yesterday was a friend. I am sorry if you have had bad experiences with police officers in the past, but they are not all bad

What if your on vacation for a week, and your gun is stolen from your home, then used in a crime before you get back. Will that penalize the theft victim under this law?

Anybody have a summer home you do not check on for weeks or even months at a time? Anybody have a spare car or ATV or motorcycle that might disappear and you won't know for a while?

Reporting a stolen object seems remarkably obvious, but applying criminal penalties to such a failure is similar to charging you as an accesory if some felon breaks into your cabin in the woods for his rape/murder hideout, for a few days.

If you discover a burglary of your home after a week's vacation, any of you self righteous posters think that officer Friendly won't start making accusations and arrest YOU JUST BECAUSE HE CAN?!

I would have to counter that if you where unaware of a theft then you cannot have a legal obligation to do anything. But if you came home after that vacation and found your property missing it should be reported. And no. I do not think Officer Friendly will arrest me just because he can. He needs a reason. And if he so chooses to do so on nothing more than a whim, then I will win a nice civil case that will probably be settled out of court so as to not attract attention. If he had a good reason to arrest me, I have a good lawyer so that's okay too. I know a lot of people have given up on the system, but I still have a little hope.

Michael