Loose Cross-hairs??

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jdscholer

New member
I've got a Leupold 24x, fixed power bench rest scope -- probably mid seventies vintage. It's attached to my Remington 22BR. I've been struggling to get this rig shooting as good as it ought to, and this afternoon while shooting a few groups, I did a little dry fire with the rifle bagged in. Sometimes, not always, I can see the crosshairs rattle, moving maybe an inch on the target at 100 yards.

My best group out of three measured .444", with two others putting four shots in that size with a flyer out of the main cluster. I'm wondering if I've got a scope issue causing my problem. Has anyone else noticed the stability of their crosshairs when dry firing your bagged rifle? jd

 
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skizzums

New member
I can't speak for attling. I have a cheapo scope that had served well for 2 years and only 20ish dollars. the first time I threw it on my AR from a 9mm carbine, the reticle began to spin around in the tube. I can't say I have ever seen them rattle, although It kinda makes sense that they could. either way, a call to the company could clear it up, (even being such a vintage) they could troubleshoot it. for some reason though, I always thought the reticle was on an internal lens, but the lens could be loose
 
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ihctractor

New member
I seriously doubt you could get sub MOA groups with loose cross hairs. At 24X you are going to see movement when you pull the trigger, especially when just resting on sand bags made of old jeans :rolleyes:. Even when clamped in a machine rest it's hard to not see movement at high magnification. For peace of mind, get a solid rest and run the scope through the "box drill" a couple times. That's a quality scope and would surprise me if it didn't pass the test. BTW, .444 @ 100 yards with a .22 is pretty decent shooting.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
The company is very much in business, so call (or better, write) them with all the info you have on the scope.

Jim
 
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Scorch

New member
Call Leupold customer service. I would suggest boxing it up and shipping to Leupold. Two weeks or so and it will be back and remove that area of doubt. If anything is loose, they will find it and fix it. If not, they will service your scope and you will have it back and ready to roll. Total cost to you is shipping
 
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jdscholer

New member
It's the inconsistency of the problem that makes me think there might be a problem. I've been bedding the rifle very carefully, and it sometimes does it and sometimes not. The crosshair will sometimes rattle and come to rest nearly an inch from my aim point, and then the next time not rattle at all. This is a ten pound + rifle with a very light trigger, and I don't think my rest is the issue. Never underestimate jean leg sand bags.:p

I'm thinkin a call to a Leupold service center might be the way to go. I'd love this old scope even better if I knew it had been checked and reconditioned. jd
 
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Bart B.

New member
Put an optical collimator in the muzzle, zero the scope on it then dry fire the rifle several times. If the reticule bounces back to the same place on the collimator reticule every time, the scope is good. Otherwise, send it back to the factory for repair.
 
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jdscholer

New member
Amazingly enough, I've got an old Bushnell bore sighter that I picked up at a yard sale quite awhile back. I've never used it, and it's got a cracked lens, but I've been able to mount it on/in the barrel and think it's gonna tell me what I need to know.

So far, things look pretty good as far as crosshairs returning to position. Seems like things change a little in a side-ways or upside down position, but I wasn't able to use a good rest last night, and had to give up. More work today will tell the tale I think. Thanks for the idea Bart. jd
 
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Bart B.

New member
With that collimator in place, see how much one click moves the scope on it. Then you'll know how much error there is in the scopes repeatability.
 
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Jimro

New member
Scopes are basically a tube within a tube. The cross hair rattling means the inner tube is vibrating independent of the outer tube.

I would contact Leupold to see if your scope needs to be returned for servicing, specifically for spring replacement.

Jimro
 
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g.willikers

New member
Who did you mug for their pants?
Did they put up much of a fight?

If you are wanting the best accuracy out of your very nice rifle, scope design and optics have come a very long way since the 1970s.
Maybe a new one?
It looks like the rifle deserves it.
 
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Bart B.

New member
Scopes have nothing to do with a rifle's accuracy. Rifles shoot very tiny groups without sights. All the sight does is help someone aim the rifle more precisely.

Smallest series of 10-shot groups at 600 yards I know of were shot with a rifle with aperture metallic sights. Back in 1971.
 
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T. O'Heir

New member
Please reduce the size of your pictures.
Fliers are rarely caused by loose anything. Usually the shooter. Your heart beat can do it. But it could be tiny differences in the powder charge or wee differences in the bullet.
 
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jimbob86

Moderator
Scopes have nothing to do with a rifle's accuracy.
Click to expand...

Ah, semantics again ....

Rifles shoot very tiny groups without sights.
Click to expand...

If clamped into some kind of rest that would allow the gun to recoil and return to it's exact position, yes, that's true.


All the sight does is help someone aim the rifle.
Click to expand...

And even if that person is aiming the worlds most accurate rifle with the worlds most accurate load, with a scope that indicates he's on target when he is, in fact, not, and changes it's indicated POA randomly every shot ..... then the holes are going to be all over the place...... might as well be shooting a smoothbore musket.
 
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jdscholer

New member
Here's the groups I shot yesterday with the pertinent data. I know it's kinda hinky jumping full grain graduations between groups, but I'm trying to get a quick idea where to head with this thing. The hottest load here is still under listed max, and shows no high pressure signs. I'd been up to it before with pretty much the same results. I'm still trying different case prep techniques, and after shooting these shells finally have some fire formed brass that will be neck sized only for my next groups.

Sorry about the pic size. I move them straight from Photobucket, and that's the way they come. I don't know how to change it.:eek: jd
 
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reynolds357

New member
Jd, Why is is the scope mounted with an extended rear ring?

.444 is not a bad group to be shot from bags during load development. That rifle probably has a .3/8 inch group in it. Play with powders, primers, and seat depth. In your other two groups, the flyers look more like shooter than equipment. Shoot the rifle in free recoil and see what it does.

Was the 700 action blueprinted?
 
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jdscholer

New member
Was the 700 action blueprinted?
Click to expand...

This rifle is one of the 40 XBR's that was produced in the Remington custom shop. As I understand it, they weren't "blueprinted" as would be done with a previously manufactured action, but simply created with exacting tolerances from the start. Chambers were cut to specified dimensions for whoever ordered it; and this one is freakin tight. It's been a pain in the butt to fit brass to, and I probably should have had custom dies made -- might still have to.:rolleyes:



As far as the scope mounts go, that's what was on it when I got it. It sits close to where it needs to be for my lanky bod, and I may even move it a little more forward.

I'd like to think that I'm not the cause of those fliers, but I'm not perfect. :p jd
 
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