Given some thoughts I've seen in print before concerning folks like Brady and Feinstein, you might not be able to keep a camo gun in California in the distant future. I read before where they seemed to feel that anything camo should be banned. You might be required to paint it hot pink or something in the future to conform to Ca. law......Only kidding about that part, but the camo situation has been discussed.
Looking Forward -- Gun Choices
- Thread starter Pep in CA
- Start date
FrankenMauser
New member
I like your list.
My personal preference would actually drop every one of those items, but it's a well thought out list, and should cover most things very well.
My disagreement on the rifle and shotgun are simply my preference, but if that's what you want they should serve you well.
With more personal preference coming into play, I want to address one issue:
DON'T BUY A NEW MARLIN! They're crap. The lever actions, in particular. Remington doesn't know its [butt] from a doorknob, when it comes to the Marlin lever actions, and quality continues to go down hill. (We thought it was improving, but it was cosmetic while they cheapened the materials and opened the tolerances for things like headspace!
)
If you want a Marlin 336 in .30-30, find one made prior to about 2005. (Letter serial number prefixes; or serial number prefixes ranging from 29 [1971] to 00, or 00 [backward] to 95 [2005], or 69 or 70 [1969 and 1970].)
Seriously. Please. Do NOT buy a current-manufacture (or recent manufacture) Marlin 336. They are absolute garbage.
Easy giveaways of post-Remington rifles are "MR" and "SR" serial number prefixes, and/or a "QR code" style square barcode engraved on the receiver.
Qualification/quantification: I love working on Marlin lever actions. They may be my favorite action design, and the pre-Remington rifles are quality firearms. I'm even looking into getting an FFL, in order to start doing my custom work professionally. But...
The Remington-built Marlins are the lowest form of garbage I have ever seen from a domestic "quality" manufacturer.
Please. For the love of god, buy a used one.
Heck, if I have to, I'll discuss selling you my 1970 Glenfield Model 30. The Glenfields are "store brand" Marlin 336s with cheaper stocks; but just as well built.
My personal preference would actually drop every one of those items, but it's a well thought out list, and should cover most things very well.
My disagreement on the rifle and shotgun are simply my preference, but if that's what you want they should serve you well.
With more personal preference coming into play, I want to address one issue:
DON'T BUY A NEW MARLIN! They're crap. The lever actions, in particular. Remington doesn't know its [butt] from a doorknob, when it comes to the Marlin lever actions, and quality continues to go down hill. (We thought it was improving, but it was cosmetic while they cheapened the materials and opened the tolerances for things like headspace!
)If you want a Marlin 336 in .30-30, find one made prior to about 2005. (Letter serial number prefixes; or serial number prefixes ranging from 29 [1971] to 00, or 00 [backward] to 95 [2005], or 69 or 70 [1969 and 1970].)
Seriously. Please. Do NOT buy a current-manufacture (or recent manufacture) Marlin 336. They are absolute garbage.
Easy giveaways of post-Remington rifles are "MR" and "SR" serial number prefixes, and/or a "QR code" style square barcode engraved on the receiver.
Qualification/quantification: I love working on Marlin lever actions. They may be my favorite action design, and the pre-Remington rifles are quality firearms. I'm even looking into getting an FFL, in order to start doing my custom work professionally. But...
The Remington-built Marlins are the lowest form of garbage I have ever seen from a domestic "quality" manufacturer.
Please. For the love of god, buy a used one.
Heck, if I have to, I'll discuss selling you my 1970 Glenfield Model 30. The Glenfields are "store brand" Marlin 336s with cheaper stocks; but just as well built.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nathan.
And I do appreciate the comment by FrankenMauser. He seems to have a lot of experience, which I lack. That is why I started this thread in the first place ... for feedback like his.
I am not adverse to the idea of buying a used, pre-Remington 336 if it is in good condition. I heard Marlin's quality went down after Remington purchased the company, but not so vehemently as FrankenMauser stated. I would be wise to take his advice when I make my purchase decision.
Thanks again to all.
And I do appreciate the comment by FrankenMauser. He seems to have a lot of experience, which I lack. That is why I started this thread in the first place ... for feedback like his.
I am not adverse to the idea of buying a used, pre-Remington 336 if it is in good condition. I heard Marlin's quality went down after Remington purchased the company, but not so vehemently as FrankenMauser stated. I would be wise to take his advice when I make my purchase decision.
Thanks again to all.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Be aware that guns are only a part of the whole hunting shtick. All manner of things to consider: Learning how to walk quietly is one. Another is how to sit very still, imitating a rock or stump. The more time you can spend out in the boonies even without a gun is educational. Sitting and looking from various places in the first and last hours of daylight can teach about critter movement.
For deer, learn about travel paths between bedding areas and feeding areas.
Mid-day, walking hunting can be productive. Kick Bambi out of bed, look him over, and if you want him, be good at a running shot.
For deer, learn about travel paths between bedding areas and feeding areas.
Mid-day, walking hunting can be productive. Kick Bambi out of bed, look him over, and if you want him, be good at a running shot.
Art, learning the whole hunting schtick to me is the fun part. Once I have my guns and learn how to shoot them well, hopefully I'll have plenty of time to learn the schtick. (The same goes for fishing, BTW. I don't know a darn thing about fishing, but that topic is inappropriate for a firearms forum).
Cheers.
Cheers.
bamaranger
New member
but why..........?
I don't see that the 30-30 fills a broad enough role to justify its place in a limited 3 gun (4) battery. One might consider ditching the 30-30 and buying some type of centerfire varmint rig.....sometype of Savage bolt rifle in .223 would be my suggestion.
The .308 could be used on hogs, and the .223 could too in a pinch. About the only way I could rationalize the 30-30 lever (and I am not a basher) is where it's carbine like portability would be an asset, say use on horseback, or from an ATV, that sort of thing. Even then, a short .223 bolt (MVP) might fill the same role.
I don't see that the 30-30 fills a broad enough role to justify its place in a limited 3 gun (4) battery. One might consider ditching the 30-30 and buying some type of centerfire varmint rig.....sometype of Savage bolt rifle in .223 would be my suggestion.
The .308 could be used on hogs, and the .223 could too in a pinch. About the only way I could rationalize the 30-30 lever (and I am not a basher) is where it's carbine like portability would be an asset, say use on horseback, or from an ATV, that sort of thing. Even then, a short .223 bolt (MVP) might fill the same role.
ArkansasHunter
New member
Nice, You're at an amazing start with those 3! people will nit pick and say one little thing those 3 cant accomplish, I personally own all 3 that you listed except my savage 11 is in 300 WM but i wish it was .308.
30-30 kills more deer every year then ALL guns combined, its good out to 150 yds. maybe farther if your experienced.
Mossberg 835, very reliable gun and will serve as home defense,
savage 11 in 308 will kill anything in North America, i would personally prefer the model 10 in wood stock with accu trigger and nikon 3x9
30-30 and .308 ammo is every where and cheap.
30-30 kills more deer every year then ALL guns combined, its good out to 150 yds. maybe farther if your experienced.
Mossberg 835, very reliable gun and will serve as home defense,
savage 11 in 308 will kill anything in North America, i would personally prefer the model 10 in wood stock with accu trigger and nikon 3x9
30-30 and .308 ammo is every where and cheap.
FrankenMauser
New member
You're giving me too much credit.
My experience is a drop in the bucket, compared to some of the guys here.
But I do stand by my statements - current-production Marlin 336s are not a good buy. Find a used one. (Even .35 Remington, if you can. Ammo is a little harder to get, but it's a great cartridge.)
FWIW, my choices were the Mossberg Patriot in 308W, the Mossberg shotgun and a slug barrel to go with the bird barrel, and instead of the Marlin 336, I got the Henry H009 in 30-30. All these were for the grandkids. I liked the Henry so much I got me one in 45-70 when they came out with the 22" barrel version.
Since you're moving to a free country (state), look into an AR15 once you get there. Flat shooting, light weight, little to no recoil, accurate, + inexpensive ammo.
I live in the Ozarks of Missouri (FYI - cheap land... $1k per acre of less) and it seems like everyone here, including old timer cattle ranchers, are now carrying AR15's for truck guns.
Consider it an addition to your listed guns.
I live in the Ozarks of Missouri (FYI - cheap land... $1k per acre of less) and it seems like everyone here, including old timer cattle ranchers, are now carrying AR15's for truck guns.
Consider it an addition to your listed guns.
jersurf101
New member
I own bolt action rifles from savage, Weatherby, remington, and Winchester. My savage 11 trophy xp in .308 is my most disappointing rifle. It is very particular with ammo. I would steer clear of this line from savage. I have an axis that will shooit circles around my xp. I bought mi,e 4 years ago for $430. I would not pay 550 plus for one. I would go HOWA/weatherby myself. They are the best shooters I have found for the money. the low to mix level savages cannot compare to Those two IMHO.
The OP here again, and I hope I don't drag this conversation into the wrong direction, but so many repliers have encouraged me into the .223 AR platform. I have to ask why.
Sorry, but I don't see the .223 round as a practical varmint control round. Rimfire rounds and guns are practical for that purpose. And I don't see the .223 round as a practical hunting round either. Yeah, an AR rifle can be used for hunting, but let's face it, it's an anti-personel gun.
Only if I was a prepper would I consider buying an AR-15 rifle. Then again, maybe I should be thinking so, given the events happening these days, but that is a different story.
Sorry, but I don't see the .223 round as a practical varmint control round. Rimfire rounds and guns are practical for that purpose. And I don't see the .223 round as a practical hunting round either. Yeah, an AR rifle can be used for hunting, but let's face it, it's an anti-personel gun.
Only if I was a prepper would I consider buying an AR-15 rifle. Then again, maybe I should be thinking so, given the events happening these days, but that is a different story.
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FrankenMauser
New member
It's popular, cheap, and a lot of people fall in love with the "adult legos" aspect of the AR-15. (Nearly anything can be removed and/or installed with minimal problems, if any.)
So, they're just offering their thoughts on what might work for you, without actually knowing exactly how you define terms like 'varmint control'.
For example... my own perception of 'varmint control' insinuates mid to long range shots, generally on animals ranging from prairie dog size to coyotes or pigs, with the ability to run centerfire cartridges with few (if any) restrictions. Anything from .223 Rem to, say, .300 Win Mag is fair game.
But if the term is changed to 'pest control' then I start thinking rimfire, due to ricochet, noise, or penetration risks/problems.
If an AR, and/or .223 Rem is not what you want, or not what fits your needs... don't do it.
I have a variety of rimfires. I have a variety of ARs. I have a variety of .223s. And on, and on... They fit my needs, but I doubt this exact combination of rifles would fit anyone else's needs.
bamaranger
New member
.22 lr v. .223
I see the .22lr not as a varmint rifle, but as a "pest" and small game gun. It's great for drilling stuff around the place at minimal noise and , and when you can find it realistically priced, still cheap to shoot for fun and practice. Doesn't tear up small game and so good for pot meat; rabbits, squirrels.
But a "varmint" rifle, to most of us, or me anyhow, means a rifle that will reach 300-400 or more yds with minimal drop, extreme accuracy, and moderate recoil. The .223 is at the lower end of this class of rifle/cartridge, with extreme numbers like the 22-250 and the old .220 Swift being the extreme speedsters. Some folks even like 6mm/.243 as a heavy varmint rig. I don't see a provision in your collection for this class of cartridge/rifle......maybe you are just not interested in that type of rig.
Long before the .222/5.56 became selected for the AR/m16 as a military cartridge, its cousin, the .222 Remington was winning benchrest matches and was the darling of many varmint hunters. The difference between the two is nearly negligible ballistically. BTW, your .308 started life as an "antipersonnel " cartridge as well, to replace its military cousin the .30-06, the predecseeor to the military 30-40,and the military 45-70.
I fear you may have stepped into a deep hole.
I see the .22lr not as a varmint rifle, but as a "pest" and small game gun. It's great for drilling stuff around the place at minimal noise and , and when you can find it realistically priced, still cheap to shoot for fun and practice. Doesn't tear up small game and so good for pot meat; rabbits, squirrels.
But a "varmint" rifle, to most of us, or me anyhow, means a rifle that will reach 300-400 or more yds with minimal drop, extreme accuracy, and moderate recoil. The .223 is at the lower end of this class of rifle/cartridge, with extreme numbers like the 22-250 and the old .220 Swift being the extreme speedsters. Some folks even like 6mm/.243 as a heavy varmint rig. I don't see a provision in your collection for this class of cartridge/rifle......maybe you are just not interested in that type of rig.
Long before the .222/5.56 became selected for the AR/m16 as a military cartridge, its cousin, the .222 Remington was winning benchrest matches and was the darling of many varmint hunters. The difference between the two is nearly negligible ballistically. BTW, your .308 started life as an "antipersonnel " cartridge as well, to replace its military cousin the .30-06, the predecseeor to the military 30-40,and the military 45-70.
I fear you may have stepped into a deep hole.
I am sorry if I have offended any AR rifle owner, but I have to say I have trouble following the reasoning for owning an AR rifle. They are great guns, I have no doubt, but I question their purpose.
I am talking about hunting and folks are steering me towards AR-15s!
A parody on "How Not to Hunt":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnz1rRE6sE
I am talking about hunting and folks are steering me towards AR-15s!
A parody on "How Not to Hunt":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnz1rRE6sE
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Here's some fellers that hunt with 223:
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2288856&page=2
http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/02/hunters-first-mountain-lion-taken-with-ar-15-sporting-rifle/
You might also look into a 300 black or 6.8 upper. Plenty of folks killin large game with those calibers:
300 black:
http://shwat.com/TheStories/tabid/8...es-Bullets-120-Grain-VOR-TX-300-Blackout.aspx
6.8:
http://forum.lwrci.com/viewtopic.php?p=94561
6.8 vs Grizzly
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1...ers______Why_do_you_hate_the_AK_.html&page=44
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2288856&page=2
http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/02/hunters-first-mountain-lion-taken-with-ar-15-sporting-rifle/
You might also look into a 300 black or 6.8 upper. Plenty of folks killin large game with those calibers:
300 black:
http://shwat.com/TheStories/tabid/8...es-Bullets-120-Grain-VOR-TX-300-Blackout.aspx
6.8:
http://forum.lwrci.com/viewtopic.php?p=94561
6.8 vs Grizzly
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1...ers______Why_do_you_hate_the_AK_.html&page=44
FrankenMauser
New member
I don't think you've offended anyone. They were simply offering advice, in order to help ensure you'd been exposed to some of the more popular and/or cheaper options available.
But, try not to let your preconceived prejudice blind you. Not all AR-15s are created equal, and not all are running .223 Remington / 5.56x45mm.
Most 'non-223' ARs are running a cartridge somewhere between 25 caliber and 30 caliber. But there are some at the 'extreme' end of what can be shoe-horned into an AR-15 style rifle.
This one, for example, is chambered for .475 Tremor (.458 SOCOM necked up for a .475" bullet). It launches the pictured 275 gr bullet (Speer Deep Curl / Gold Dot) at 1,789 fps from a 14.5" barrel (with pinned and welded muzzle brake to meet legal length).
Even coming from a shorter barrel, that bullet carries 51% more energy and punches a hole two to four times larger than .223/5.56.
It's not a long-range firearm, and not really suitable for varmint control. But for my purposes - short range big game hunting - it's a sledgehammer.
When I'm in terrain where I'm likely to have just a second or two to identify and drop an Elk before it will disappear forever, nothing will keep up with the speed and power of the Tremor - not even my custom 'shorty' .444 Marlin (currently needing to have its rear sight reinstalled). The .444 Marlin is capable of notably more power, but it's also heavier, longer, and slower to operate. When it comes to rounds-on-target, the 444 is left eating the Tremor's dust.
(Bad photo...)
But, try not to let your preconceived prejudice blind you. Not all AR-15s are created equal, and not all are running .223 Remington / 5.56x45mm.
Most 'non-223' ARs are running a cartridge somewhere between 25 caliber and 30 caliber. But there are some at the 'extreme' end of what can be shoe-horned into an AR-15 style rifle.
This one, for example, is chambered for .475 Tremor (.458 SOCOM necked up for a .475" bullet). It launches the pictured 275 gr bullet (Speer Deep Curl / Gold Dot) at 1,789 fps from a 14.5" barrel (with pinned and welded muzzle brake to meet legal length).
Even coming from a shorter barrel, that bullet carries 51% more energy and punches a hole two to four times larger than .223/5.56.
It's not a long-range firearm, and not really suitable for varmint control. But for my purposes - short range big game hunting - it's a sledgehammer.
When I'm in terrain where I'm likely to have just a second or two to identify and drop an Elk before it will disappear forever, nothing will keep up with the speed and power of the Tremor - not even my custom 'shorty' .444 Marlin (currently needing to have its rear sight reinstalled). The .444 Marlin is capable of notably more power, but it's also heavier, longer, and slower to operate. When it comes to rounds-on-target, the 444 is left eating the Tremor's dust.
(Bad photo...)
