Loading 18 rounds in a 20 round magazine

Jim Watson

New member
I was in a similar debate on another board.
A poster complained that his magazine was difficult to load with the cataloged 13 rounds and difficult to seat in the gun when he finally got it full.
I suggested treating it as a 12-shooter for convenience and reliability.
The sense of that board was that I was nuts, what he needed to do was to squash the spring, clip the spring, polish the gun, grease the gun, etc. to get in the claimed load out.
 
"Common knowledge" should be suspect. For example, when I was a kid (many years ago), it was common knowledge that African elephants were never used in circuses because they were not trainable as are Asian elephants. Also, it was "common knowledge" that the reason Marco Polo's discovery of spices in China was so important is that due to no refrigeration, spices could be used to mask the smell of rotting meat so that it could still be eaten. Both "common knowledge" suppositions were in fact incorrect.

Oh, so because common knowledge has been proven wrong before, all common knowledge is therefore suspect. Got it.

Using this logic, studies and science should never be trusted either because they are often determined to be wrong. For examples, it was once known by science that the sun revolved around the earth. Fleischman-Pons claimed to have created nuclear fusion. Doctors believed the humors of the body controlled health. Studies have found that having a gun in the home is very dangerous to the occupants. Studies have found that more guns mean less crime.

Taking all this one step further, ALL KNOWLEDGE is suspect because there have been problems with it in the past.

Your contention that common knowledge should be suspect is therefore deemed noncredible because you have been wrong on things in the past. My assessment that your contention is wrong is also deemed noncredible because I have been wrong on things in the past.

All of a sudden, we know nothing because everything on which we base our knowledge has been found by somebody, somewhere, to have faults.

You were the one who asked for the BASIS of downloading mags. Experience may certainly be the basis for it and the information became common knowledge. Just because you think common knowledge may be suspect for certain things does not make it wrong in every case. Yes, common knowledge can be wrong. But you what? Common knowledge can also be right.
 

Mongo_Bongo

New member
What was the basis for only 18 rounds in 20 round mags during early Vietnam War?

In 1969 we had 20 round mags. I know of no one who didn't load 20 and know of no issues from doing so.
 

dahermit

New member
Oh, so because common knowledge has been proven wrong before, all common knowledge is therefore suspect. Got it.

Using this logic, studies and science should never be trusted either because they are often determined to be wrong. For examples, it was once known by science that the sun revolved around the earth. Fleischman-Pons claimed to have created nuclear fusion. Doctors believed the humors of the body controlled health. Studies have found that having a gun in the home is very dangerous to the occupants. Studies have found that more guns mean less crime.

Taking all this one step further, ALL KNOWLEDGE is suspect because there have been problems with it in the past.

Your contention that common knowledge should be suspect is therefore deemed noncredible because you have been wrong on things in the past. My assessment that your contention is wrong is also deemed noncredible because I have been wrong on things in the past.

All of a sudden, we know nothing because everything on which we base our knowledge has been found by somebody, somewhere, to have faults.

You were the one who asked for the BASIS of downloading mags. Experience may certainly be the basis for it and the information became common knowledge. Just because you think common knowledge may be suspect for certain things does not make it wrong in every case. Yes, common knowledge can be wrong. But you what? Common knowledge can also be right.
The key word is "suspectt".
In other words, not all such should be accepted at face value without coaberaing evidence. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.
 

NYPD13

New member
I have some reproduction straight body type magazines for my M16A2 clone. Could never get 20 rounds in them. Modern bent or curved body design, no problem.
 
The key word is "suspectt".
In other words, not all such should be accepted at face value without coaberaing evidence. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

DNS arguably provides one of the most informed posts based on logic and reason on TFL. It's hard to understand because you've been provided salient responses and input from those that served in Viet Nam or knew those that did provide first hand accounts of their reasonings. You're demanding data for something that most likely wasn't collected and studied properly to provide a conclusion to your satisfaction. I go as far as to say that because I tend to give some latitude to someone in uniform, on the ground, loading mags, and using them with their firearm to kill their enemy and trusting said practices to come home alive. It's pretty apparent you'd rather believe some desk jockey's 5 paragraph essay written 30 years later.

Bottom line; dismissing "war stories" without even a hint of taking consideration of their validity while demanding "data" that isn't readily prevalent is what I don't understand.
 
Not any that's to your satisfaction...or else you wouldn't have generated this thread demanding data and refuse to consider alternate sources provided to you.
 

JustJake

New member
My Uncle Jimmy from back in the Nam said the mags his unit got were 20-rounders loaded with 20-rds, not 18. Because that's the way they were issued to the troops circa 1965-67.

Back then, the 20-rd mags were deemed to be disposable 'throwaways' once you shot through one. They weren't something you held on to, or worried about loading up again yourself, as his squad was resupplied with more (loaded) mags.

Maybe later in the war that changed.
 

north1

New member
Had a couple of hours to spare and found an article from Friday, June 9 1967 in Time titled DEFENSE:UNDER FIRE. An excerpt stated:

“Even its advocates concede that some M-16 failures may result from a weak spring in the magazine. Though the M-16 clip can hold up to 21 rounds, Marine Corps Commandant Wallace Greene recommends loads of no more than “17 or 18 rounds.” Some Marines have used an old World War II trick to speed up reloading: they tape two magazines together upside down; after one magazine is burnt out, it can be swiftly inverted and the other inserted. The added weight of the second magazine , however, is enough to draw the lip of the first magazine out of true, and can lead to a bent round and a fatal jam.

Now I fully realize this is not a scientific study but is proof the Marine Corps Commandant made a recommendation to not fully load magazines. There are indications of tests being done when Congress became aware of problems. Where or if they can be found I have not been able to determine. Don’t know if I have the time to start delving into the Library of Congress or some other source.
 

dahermit

New member
I have some reproduction straight body type magazines for my M16A2 clone. Could never get 20 rounds in them. Modern bent or curved body design, no problem.
I don't think that my 20-round AR15 magazines have any "bend" or "curve" in them. However, my 30-round mags do.
 

dahermit

New member
It's pretty apparent you'd rather believe some desk jockey's 5 paragraph essay written 30 years later.

As much as you seem to have a penchant for putting words in my mouth, please show me in my posts were that is "apparent", or I have ever indicated that.
 
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NYPD13

New member
vFnOIOJ.jpg

Maybe this explains it better.
 

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101combatvet

New member
I never load magazines to total capacity; however, there is no reason that you can't. I do it to give the magazine spring a longer life. ;)
 

44 AMP

Staff
Interesting picture of the two magazines. Too bad we can't see the other side. The one on the right, the longer one with the curve sure looks like a mini-14 mag,not an AR mag, to me.

I have a few 30 rnd mags that are dual rifle, fitting both the AR and the Mini-14. could it be one of those?
 

imashooter

New member
Static load on the spring does not diminish its effectiveness over time. Only the repetition of expansions / contractions causes the wear.
 

gb_in_ga

New member
18 rounds in a 20 round mag

It was SOP in our unit when I was in the Army just after Vietnam. Putting 20 rounds in the mag would cause feeding issues more often than not. I have witnessed this issue myself. It wasn't limited to early M16s, it happened with our -A1s, too.
 
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