loaded without firing?

[jar]

My concern with leaving a gun stored in a loaded condition is not so much a question of "will it fire" but rather "who will take it out of storage and will that person 'assume it is loaded' and treat it as such"?

Stuff happens and unfortunately much of such stuff are issues we could have prevented.

 

[44 AMP]

I mention the oil breaking down, but that's really only a long term issue (unless you're using something totally unsuitable) and by long term I mean multiple years, a decade or more. Oil killing your ammo could happen in a little as a few months, I think, but that's a different problem, easily avoided by using the proper kind of lubricant.

What I can't quite wrap my head around is the point of leaving a loaded gun unattended for long periods of time. And along with this is leaving it "unsecured".

I can understand the idea of having a gun "ready to go, at need", but I don't get why such a gun would be left uncared for, or even unwatched for some time. If its locked up, what's the point of needing it loaded?? Seens to me the time needed to get to the gun won't in any way be negated by the few seconds needed to load it, once you get the safe open...

And, if its not in the safe, but loaded for instant use, if you leave it for long periods of time, how do you know nothing has happened to it during your absence??

Also, while you may be in a situation where there is no one else around to be able to access the gun, can you be certain of that if you leave it somewhere, long term?

Also, if its loaded, not locked up, and you're not there, anyone who does get to it, gets their hands on a loaded gun. Not the best of ideas, in my book.


So, yes, you can expect to be able to leave a gun loaded for a long period of time without anything going wrong with the gun, but why would you???

 

[rodfac]

In our home, the only guns that are left loaded are our carry pieces when actually carried, and the bedside handguns that are stored in finger code actuated locked boxes. We have a half dozen grandchildren that are in the house virtually daily... they're all smart as whips...and we take precautions. They've been taught the rules for gun safety, nevertheless, keeping our guns unloaded unless actually in use is our rule...

As to oil/grease degradation, as AMP44 has rightly pointed out...if you ignore your guns for long periods of time the oil/grease degrades and may gum up the works. My regimen is to clean/lube them all at least once a year and any that are fired for whatever number of shots are cleaned/lubed after firing.

Short term cleaning may be as little as a boresnake pulled through the bbl. and cylinder and a fairly thorough brush out...then a complete exterior and interior oily rag rub down (in areas that are readily accessible). The whole process may take five minutes max as an estimate, and pretty much ensures the gun will operate as advertised the next time I go out to shoot.

The once a year operation is a bit more extensive. Rifles get the barreled actions pulled out of the stocks, the bolts disassembled and all get oiled and cleaned as necessary. Pretty much the same with my shotguns. I do like to hose out the innards of the bolts on both for stray grease or oil and very lightly re-lube with thin oil.

With handguns, I do not generally pull the side plates on Smiths unless I suspect a problem. I shoot cast bullets predominantly and keep an eye on stray bullet lube/lead build up. The bores are thoroughly cleaned and lead build up removed with either a Lewis Lead Remover or more often with a piece of ALL COPPER CHOREBOY wrapped around a well used bore brush.

Overall, I doubt that good quality oil/grease will gum up or revert to varnish in a single year, but I suppose it could be a potential problem in some environments but a once a year spring cleaning has always worked for me.

Best regards, Rod

 

[Prof Young]

Carry guns only all in same safe.

My carry guns stay loaded and all live in the same safe.

If it's in there . . . it's loaded. No need to sort out.

Everything else stays unloaded, and besides being in a different safe, most have a trigger lock.

Life is good.
Prof Young

 

[FITASC]

Springs do not weaken by staying on one condition or another, they weaken by "work" which means cycling of compression/decompression as stated above. That said, i do tend to leave my loaded mags down one - more of a mental thing I guess, but confidence IS a mental thing.

Carry guns only all in same safe.
My carry guns stay loaded and all live in the same safe.

If it's in there . . . it's loaded. No need to sort out.

Everything else stays unloaded, and besides being in a different safe, most have a trigger lock.

In my house, if a gun is loaded, it is either out of the safe or in a holster inside the safe. EVERY other gun in the safe is in a silicone sock for rust and ding prevention

 

[Wag]

I find that the more guns I acquire, the more likely it is that a few of them will sit unused for longer periods of time. Back when I only had three or four or five, they all got cleaned quite frequently. Now, there are probably a dozen or so that don't get into the cleaning zone very often any more. Sometimes, five or six years. So far, none of them have ever failed as a result of lack of use.

If I do decide to take one of them to the range, I generally take a swipe or two and a quick rub with an oiled patch and check the action to make sure it's working before it goes to the range. Just to be sure.

As for keeping them loaded, this may cause some consternation: I always keep them all loaded all the time. I figure that as long as one of the first four safety rules is, "all guns are always loaded all the time," then I'll keep them loaded all the time. Then there are no mistakes about it. Ergo, I keep my dang fingers off the triggers, keep them pointed in safe directions, etc.

They are always locked up, even though I don't have any curtain climbers around the house. I never know if a friend is going to come by with their little grandkids and we'll lose track of one at some point.

So yeah, I never have issues with keeping a gun loaded and they have yet to fail me.

--Wag--

 

[44 AMP]

I figure that as long as one of the first four safety rules is, "all guns are always loaded all the time,"

That's what some say today, but its not the actual rule as originally stated. Its the modern "hyper-compressed" version and it actually changes the intent of the rule, by leaving out important words.

First off, it cannot be taken at face value. All guns are NOT always loaded all the time. As a flat declarative statement, it is not true.

TREAT every gun AS IF it were loaded, until you, personally, have checked it. If the gun leaves your sight (some will say "your control") even briefly, treat it as if it were loaded until you have checked it, again.

this is the full idea, it is a safety rule, one of the instructions for what you should do to be safe handling firearms.

One of the important parts of the rule (and one that is lost in the "short version") is that you, personally, are responsible for checking the gun to ensure its condition, loaded or unloaded. YOU, no one else. You do not take anyone's word for it. Even people you trust about other things, can make mistakes. You need to see the chamber is empty, or not. If you can't see it, you need to feel it.

People defend the short version (though I don't know why) by saying "everyone knows what you mean"...

But, everyone doesn't. On top of that, some won't follow the rules even when they are fully stated. A certain actor/producer comes to mind as a recent example.....

And, its poor grammar, leaving out words changes the rule from an instruction (something you should do) to a flat declaration of the condition of the gun (always loaded all the time) which is patently not true....

Store your guns as you see fit, they are your property. Personally, I see no point to storing guns loaded. Now, I have some guns I keep loaded, for personal/home defense, but those guns are not in "storage" as I see it, they are in use. Even if I don't touch one for some time, I consider it in use (since it is loaded, and ready to go).

 

[Aguila Blanca]

44 AMP said that much more eloquently than I could have. "All guns are always loaded" is obviously an inaccurate (i.e. false) statement.IMHO, attempting to convey an important safety rule by misstating it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[jar]

Also it's convenient to say "everyone knows the four rules of safety" but it's also completely false. In fact I would imagine that less then one out of ten gun owners actually know any of them. And gun owners are still a vast minority of today's population.

It's very possible that even if a loaded gun is secured in a safe that the person that removes it will assume it is unloaded.

Since there really are few valid reasons to keep a loaded gun even if secured it would make sense to try to prevent future accidents, particularly potentially fatal accidents. If I store my Detective Special in a quick open safe unloaded but with a loaded speed loader it is still available in an emergency. If I store my 1911 unloaded but with a loaded magazine sitting alongside it is still available in an emergency. And if someone who does not know the four rules happens to be the person who opens the safe they would have to intentionally load the handgun before any harm might be done.

It really seems a simple and reasonable precaution.

 

[Wag]

I do agree that it's a fallacy to say that "all guns are loaded all the time." I never did hear it any other way but I've always considered that a worthwhile dissection to say to treat them "as if" they are loaded makes a lot more sense.

It's also true that few people know the four basic safety rules (or the dozen NRA safety rules) so if I go shooting with someone for the first time, I go over it with them.

So, keeping my guns loaded all the time is a good way to make the statement true. "If I hand you one of my guns, it's loaded. Keep your booger hook off the trigger."

Frankly, I suspect there are pros and cons either way. Guns in the safe are never going to be quickly deployed and if you're not legally able to transport loaded guns, you have to remember to unload them all before going to the range and hope you don't miss unloading one of them.

--Wag--

 

[44 AMP]

I wish people would stop saying "the four rules". Saying it that way implies there aren't any other rules, and there are plenty of more rules.

The FIRST four rules are vitally important, and apply ALL the time, but that doesn't mean you should be ignorant of, or ignore the others.

My Father gave NRA Hunter Safety classes every fall. From the time I was in elementary school until I went into the Army, I was involved in every one. Fetch and carry stuff when I was little, more as I grew up.

EVERYTHING taught in those classes is important, but not everything applies to daily life. Its not anything vital to most people in urban settings that they remember one of the rules is to open the action/unload your gun before climbing over a fence or crossing a stream....

But if you don't know, or cannot correctly state those FIRST four and understand the reasons behind them, you're not properly educated in firearm safety.

 

[Paul B.]

Interesting bit of history. A friend's grandfather fought in WW1 and brought the 1911 he had been issued home with him. Apparently it was placed in a drawer and probably never fired. When the old guy died, his son got the gun and apparently not being a gun person threw the gun in a dresser drawer and forgot about it. When he passed, my friend got the gun and noticed the magazine was fully loaded. So he took a little trip out in the desert and banged off seven rounds. All fired without a problem. He reloaded the magazine and put the gun away. When I visited him and his wife he showed me the gun which now was covered in rust. I cleaned it up the best I could but the gun was ruined as far as being a collectible. Based on the serial number I figured it to have been issued around late 1913 to early 1914. Well prior to the start of WW1. On the areas that had no rust, I could se what was left of a beautiful blue job, much better that what Colt does today. What a shame. A colt 1911 that early if pristine would have been worth a pretty penny. Now, it's just an old rusty gun with a low serial number. Headstamp on the brass was FA14. That ammo was 108 years old and it still went bang.
Paul B.