Playboypenguin
Moderator
Oops, meant it the other way around. Thanks for the heads up. I will fix it. 
Liberal Gun Rights advocates
- Thread starter johnwilliamson062
- Start date
astromanluca
New member
Yep, that's Libertarianism, and if I'm not mistaken, a lot of people here are more Libertarian than Republican (judging by the poll in another thread).
I think gun control is a weird issue, and a hard one to categorize. On the one hand, strict gun control could be viewed as government over-regulation, which tends to be in the realm of the Democrats. On the other hand, you'd think gun ownership as a personal freedom should be promoted by the party that claims to be socially liberal. And why is it that these days, the Republican party always seems to be the one pushing for legislation that infringes on people's personal lives? Shouldn't that be flipped around?
For better or for worse, I think a lot of the major issues we talk about have landed on one side or the other by random chance. Things have shifted a lot. And as soon as one party picks a side in a particular issue, it seems the other party's natural reaction is to take the opposite side, regardless of the logic involved.
To some extent, I just don't know anymore where the major parties stand. Politics no longer seem to be about finding logical solutions to real problems... they're about building careers and pushing forward irrelevant talking points.
I think gun control is a weird issue, and a hard one to categorize. On the one hand, strict gun control could be viewed as government over-regulation, which tends to be in the realm of the Democrats. On the other hand, you'd think gun ownership as a personal freedom should be promoted by the party that claims to be socially liberal. And why is it that these days, the Republican party always seems to be the one pushing for legislation that infringes on people's personal lives? Shouldn't that be flipped around?
For better or for worse, I think a lot of the major issues we talk about have landed on one side or the other by random chance. Things have shifted a lot. And as soon as one party picks a side in a particular issue, it seems the other party's natural reaction is to take the opposite side, regardless of the logic involved.
To some extent, I just don't know anymore where the major parties stand. Politics no longer seem to be about finding logical solutions to real problems... they're about building careers and pushing forward irrelevant talking points.
Yeah...I got into a huge discussion/argument with a good friend of mine last night over this. He swears hes a staunch Republican...but after hearing his stance on several issues, I told him.."youre a Libertarian". He actually got kinda mad and insisted that Libertarians are some sort of quack, left wing loon party.
He got even more angry when after taking the test at, www.theadvocates.org his scores placed him right smack dab in the middle of the Libertarian bracket.
Some people you just cant reach...
I think you mean http://www.theadvocates.org/
I took the test, it is interesting, but you have to look at the wording and selection of the questions. I think it tries to steer people into libertarian.
I took the test, it is interesting, but you have to look at the wording and selection of the questions. I think it tries to steer people into libertarian.
JuanCarlos
New member
Ya don't say?
Besides, you need not be libertarian to support the second amendment. I'm both socially and fiscally liberal, and still think that gun rights are as important as the rest. Rarer creatures exist.
I am socially fairly conservative and economically conservative, yet also consider myself libertarian. "How do you do this?", you might ask. I'll tell you: I don't insist that anyone else also be socially conservative. Simple.
It disappoints me that libertarian stereotypes to social liberal.
It disappoints me that libertarian stereotypes to social liberal.
Yeah, funny thing, if you agree with all the mildly worded statements, you score 100% on both personal and economic issues. That makes you an official libertarian. If you would reword some of the questions to
Do you think crack and prostitution should be legal?
Do you think criminals should have access to guns?
Does the government need tax revenue to operate?
I would have been a statist.
Do you think crack and prostitution should be legal?
Do you think criminals should have access to guns?
Does the government need tax revenue to operate?
I would have been a statist.
Evan Thomas
New member
Back in the day, libertarians divided themselves into "anarcho-capitalists" and "anarcho-socialists." When I first heard these terms (30+ years ago, but don't tell... ) , I said to myself, well, OK, I'm basically a left-libertarian, but not a fan of either capitalism or socialism as they actually operate in the world, so which am I?
I finally settled on anarcho-pessimist... I'm not a fan of government, but not having one isn't going to work, so... how do we have just the government we need, not more, and how do we make it a reasonably good one?
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written by people who had just that take on government, and that's good enough for me.
Any philosophy which can be summed up in a single word, "liberal," "conservative," or whatever, isn't much of one. A lot of us seem to be saying some version of that in this discussion. It's encouraging to see something a bit more nuanced than the usual slurs.
Gun rights? Yes, absolutely, positively... along with the rest.
) , I said to myself, well, OK, I'm basically a left-libertarian, but not a fan of either capitalism or socialism as they actually operate in the world, so which am I? I finally settled on anarcho-pessimist... I'm not a fan of government, but not having one isn't going to work, so... how do we have just the government we need, not more, and how do we make it a reasonably good one?
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written by people who had just that take on government, and that's good enough for me.
Any philosophy which can be summed up in a single word, "liberal," "conservative," or whatever, isn't much of one. A lot of us seem to be saying some version of that in this discussion. It's encouraging to see something a bit more nuanced than the usual slurs.
Gun rights? Yes, absolutely, positively... along with the rest.
MatBananas717
New member
As an atheist Libertarian, I have social attitudes that would probably be classified as liberal (pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-secularism, among other things), plus I'm against the Iraq War. It's on economics, gun rights, and Islamism that I disagree most strongly with the left, and that's why I don't classify myself as a "liberal" or vote Democrat.
I should also point out that the farther left you get, the more likely you are to find radical Marxists who actually are pro-gun (though not pro-NRA). Go to the web sites of many communist groups and you'd be surprised how many of them think that an "Army of the Proletariat", made of gun-toting civilians, should replace the standing army.
I should also point out that the farther left you get, the more likely you are to find radical Marxists who actually are pro-gun (though not pro-NRA). Go to the web sites of many communist groups and you'd be surprised how many of them think that an "Army of the Proletariat", made of gun-toting civilians, should replace the standing army.
I have yet to meet a liberal who is a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. They all seem to be afraid of guns and guns are bad, etc.
If there are liberals who support the 2nd amendment, then all I can say is, you support a party who routinely fights against your 2nd amendment right. To me, that makes no sense.
If there are liberals who support the 2nd amendment, then all I can say is, you support a party who routinely fights against your 2nd amendment right. To me, that makes no sense.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Then come to oregon and meet one. I will even pay the range fees.
I do not remember there being a "liberal party" though. At least not a mainstream one. I support candidates...not parties.
One big problem is many liberals would support more pro-gun candidates if they did not come with other baggage we find even more offensive than the anti-gun stance of the other side.
MatBananas717
New member
Some people vote on issues besides RKBA support. And frankly, I'm not even sure the typical gun owners is all that pro-RKBA. You know those studies the Brady Campaign cites which demonstrate support for stronger gun control from a large percentage of gun OWNERS? For better or worse, I'm willing to acknowledge those results might be accurate.
kingbubbatruck
New member
I think that part of the problem with the 2 party system is that the politicians in the parties are 'forced' at times to take up the party line and support the planks in their platform.
There are the die hard repubs and demos on either side that do that as well.
I believe that most people tend to look at things on an issue by issue basis, and with a good deal more common sense than the politicians.
Unfortunately, as a conservative that has had to live under the radar in very liberal areas before, I find that if you choose to limit who you have as friends based on their political views, well, you will probably live a pretty boring life.
I tend to enjoy having friends who I agree with, as much as I enjoy those who don't agree with me...
There are the die hard repubs and demos on either side that do that as well.
I believe that most people tend to look at things on an issue by issue basis, and with a good deal more common sense than the politicians.
Unfortunately, as a conservative that has had to live under the radar in very liberal areas before, I find that if you choose to limit who you have as friends based on their political views, well, you will probably live a pretty boring life.
I tend to enjoy having friends who I agree with, as much as I enjoy those who don't agree with me...
MatBananas717
New member
Amen to that.
mountainclmbr
New member
I see a huge disconnect between "liberals" who now call themselves Progressives and traditional Liberals. Traditional Liberals believed in the liberal interpretation of individual rights. Current liberals (progressives) believe in the power of the state and the right of the state to control your life, take your income and take your property. It is really slavery to the state. Slavery = Freedom makes no sense at all to me. I would say "gun grabbing, property grabbing, income grabbing, freedom grabbing illiberals!" I really see no way a person can state they support one without the rest unless they are evil, insane or stupid.
For reasons regional, cultural, age-related, and otherwise, gun ownership and 2A support are not a political issues, or at least they didn’t used to be. For example, gun ownership has been part of my family tradition for generations. Members of my family are all over the political map.
Unfortunately over the last 30 years or so guns became a political litmus test – when I was growing up everyone owned a gun regardless of what party he belonged to or whom he voted for.
It’s sad this avocation I’ve loved all my life has been made political, I’m frankly sick of it.
I understand, however, the good-ol’-days are gone and we must be vigilant to protect our rights – but understand no one party or political philosophy has a monopoly on the ‘correct position’ with regard to gun rights and the 2A.
Unfortunately over the last 30 years or so guns became a political litmus test – when I was growing up everyone owned a gun regardless of what party he belonged to or whom he voted for.
It’s sad this avocation I’ve loved all my life has been made political, I’m frankly sick of it.
I understand, however, the good-ol’-days are gone and we must be vigilant to protect our rights – but understand no one party or political philosophy has a monopoly on the ‘correct position’ with regard to gun rights and the 2A.